I’m not as scientifically well versed in the philosophy of just WHY this strong push for EV’s E-bikes, E-scooters has been so embraced by government ~ other than greed from the manufacturers, of course). How everybody got onboard of this NOT GREEN AT ALL idea is beyond my comprehension! I suppose it’s another one of those “follow the money” type of notions? Wasn’t ANYONE thinking of the downsides of creating all this EV nonsense?
I’ve watched horrific videos of cars igniting in underground garages caught by security cameras… another one on the Highwire (Del Bigtree did an investigative report on just how “green” these batteries are!) and it showed a man trapped in an elevator with a battery that caught fire ~
There’s too much of a ridiculous push to change over to a system that doesn’t seem to be well thought out.
Oh yeah, it SOUNDS like a good idea…. until rational thinking kicks in!
Just WHAT exactly does it take to produce these batteries? Hmmmmm! Oh, and what happens to them when
they die? Starting to not sound very green to me!
It’s BEYOND IRONY: we in California are encouraged to lessen the electric burden to help the “grid”… but can someone please explain to me how a multitude of folks trying to charge their EV’s while I’m doing “my part” by not using appliances during those “peak hours” makes any sense at all?
I’m not being snarky ~ I honestly want to know because it’s not at all making sense to my uneducated brain!
How can they even push EVs in a state where they’re trying to lessen the draw for the grid? Someone please tell me? (Thanks!)
Virtue-signaling is a powerful drug for the Left - a mind-altering drug. You are asking excellent questions, Evelyne. Thank you.
Even leftist film maker Michael Moore raised these issues in a little noticed documentary more than a few years ago, when he concluded there was no green "green energy technology". A good film to reconsider again today, since his prior fan base appears to have rejected his warnings at the time.
It is useful to compare the scientific consensus regarding covid 19 vs global warming. The shorter time scale of the evolution of the covid crisis has revealed the scientific consensus to be dynamic and political but not evidence based. In time perhaps champions of global warming policy will need the protection just granted Fauci, in 10,000 years.
Of COURSE there has! Wikipedia for one is heavily censored and is not a super trustworthy source of any information ~ demonstrated by how they quickly flip flopped with Dr Malone! One week he’d discovered and was given credit for developing the mRNA technology… next week only mention was that he was an antivaxxer (more like vax injured!) and no credit given. This behavior was hit upon in the films.
Thank you for your reply. Thank you for teaching me new terminology (virtue signaling…had to look it up!), and the link to that BEYOND SOBERING movie. WOW….
Quite disheartening, not altogether surprising.
If I could wave my magic wand, I’d make that movie REQUIRED watching not only for the educational system, but as relieved as I am that Kamala isn’t president, I would respectfully ask the Trump administration to PLEASE watch it also. (I realize that President Trump IS indeed a very astute and accomplished businessman, but I also want to believe that he also cares for a BALANCE)
Though it left quite a heavy bowling ball in the gut saddened feeling (only way I can describe the physical effect watching it had on me!), I hope and pray “the masses” will continue to WAKE UP and smell the (sustainably grown) coffee.
Humans simply must stop trying to be playing God, and simply must try to find a way to live more so in harmony with Mother Nature’s
delicate balance instead of trying to dominate everything they touch. (Watching a movie called “Food, Inc.” was another eye opener ~ sorry, I don’t have that link)
Do I personally have any great ideas? Less consumption, more walking or riding public transportation…
Again, I greatly appreciate the insight and your reply. *SIGH*!
bus, less private jets polluting the skies… I don’t know. Food for thought, though!
Evelyne, thanks for taking the time to watch the Michael Moore documentary. Here is another very good one to bring balance to current and important future discussions: "Climate: the Cold Truth" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31851190/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
@J Livingston: Thank you once again! Another great film that boils it all down to the same old agenda (greed, power, CONTROL). It’s been a real eye-opener these past few years… the Plandemic with its fear propaganda was quite the ice-breaker in my trust of what was being spewed as “The Science”… things didn’t make sense. How very naive for me to think that the Green Agenda wasn’t bred of the same kind of financial politics.
Interesting to learn that what happened to our brightest and best scientific minds in medicine happened to renowned climate scientists as well. (…or anyone else that doesn’t agree or dares to question).
Thank you for my eye-opening education today! I’m appreciative of the validation of what intuitively felt like more corruption. Wowza. I’ve got to give credit where it’s due…One thing that Biden did extremely well during his four years in office: He absolutely excelled in making our nation more divisive, angry, and
fearful of one another than any
other president in history. Neighbor pitted against neighbor…. Ugh! I’m so glad that is in the past. The fact that Trump wants to stop the green agenda is a breath of fresh air! I’ve never witnessed politics so off the deep end in my life, and am looking forward to NORMALCY. Might take awhile for the “coolaid crowd” to regain perspective (or not!), but in the meantime I pray for us ALL to have more compassion for one another and to become not only tolerant of our differences (in an adult way, thank you very much…) & embrace them.
Am I a dreamer? Perhaps. I don’t necessarily think that’s a negative quality. I very much DO appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions and explore issues that I personally feel ought to be taken into consideration. Hopefully I’m not the only one that watched these two eye-opening movies. I will attempt to share them with folks that are hellbent on believing the narrative…wish me luck 🍀
It has been hard for a lot of us to live in this very liberal media, one-party dominant town and not have a place to explore other viewpoints. Enjoy the exploration that SB Current now offers. Censorship, both social and actual, by most if not all local institutions has felt very oppressive. It is a relief to begin to breathe again.
But always keeping one's guard up at the same time. All pendulums do swing to excess, until new forces push back in the other direction again. As we are seeing right now.
Mob hysteria does continue rear its head from time to time - from something like the McCarthy Era of the 1950's, threats of nuclear annihilation, actual global conflagrations, to "pandemics", to the New Age group think confrontations like EST or the various transformative cultural revolutions many of our lives have already witnessed and weathered.
The task does remain to build one's own personal bedrock. Times of change, times of fear, times of vulnerability are the one constant. Those require input from many resources; not just one.
We will be in for another tumultuous next few years as we confront what our original government compact created with each other 250 years ago actually means today in a world very different from the one's the Founders were experiencing, yet human existential fundamentals do remain the same. Welcome to the journey.
ALSO! I forgot to add: what happens when you’re trapped in an EV car that crashed and caught fire, but emergency personnel cannot do much because they can’t extinguish the fires? 😳
Nothing the Dems do makes any sense virtually most of the time. The Dems apply the "No Commonsense Rule," which often is simply that which is opposite of the Repubs.
Andy Caldwell is a treasure. I have been wondering as well about the batteries in ev's and possibly home energy storage systems contributing to the LA fires. People in my neighborhood are concerned about the brush as fuel for fires, but I am concerned about all the ev's. Do the insurance companies share my concern? I would much rather breathe the combustion products of a brush fire than a lithium ion battery fire. This is part of my more general concern that the people in decision making positions are not capable of critical, systemic thinking. They take "campaign donations", which are legalized bribes, and follow the fads. A civilization can not stand for long without rational planning on the part of its decision makers.
In Dalton, GA I've noticed the backyards of the homes in the neighborhood has enough brush (lots of dead leaves) to cause a serious fire with a little wind. Looks like brush goes unnoticed until it's too late to do anything about it. Vines growing up trees around here kills trees. Another issue ... just says people just don't notice stuff, both Dems and Republicans.
Aren’t lithium batteries the culprit in the dive boat disaster years ago? (Along with lack of crew watch…) Scary to think you could be living in a high-density project with all your neighbors owning these ticking time bombs. Sleep well, over that underground garage. 🫣😱
Ya, lithium batteries are everywhere. Your DeWalt tools, laptop computers, notebooks, cellphones, cameras, etc. Drone batteries are even more dangerous.
I worry now when we travel, all the lithium battery equipment now left unmonitored at home. Unplug them all? Remove tham all and place in a fire safe zone? What are the best practices today keeping oneself lithium battery fire-safe?
There are flameproof pouches available for storing removable batteries. Outside somewhere is a good place to store them. If in on trips, ... items in a bathtub overnight during travels. If you haven't received a recall on older laptops, you are probably safe.
Don't use a battery with any known or visible damage, including leaking and swelling. If your battery comes into contact with water, stop using it immediately and don’t use it again. If a battery ever catches fire, do not use water to put it out as this may spread the fire. Charge batteries properly, never overcharge or discharge them beyond the recommended limits. Store batteries in a cool and dry place. Regularly check batteries for any damage. Handle batteries with care due to potential fire hazards and explosions.
Drone batteries, typically lithium-polymer (Li-Po) or nickel-metal hydride (Ni-MH), demand careful attention due to their potential hazards: 1. Lithium particles can ignite on contact with oxygen, and exposure to moisture can lead to dangerous reactions, 2. Handling drone batteries are particularly dangerous, and they are highly explosive if not handled properly and 3. Over charging, discharging, and physical damage can all cause internal shorts facilitating rapid discharge of the battery’s stored potential, resulting in a buildup of heat and hydrogen: a recipe for disaster. The more energy packed in a battery, the more dangerous it is.
Leaf blowers, vacuum cleaners, all cordless door prep, shop and garden equipment - probably shocking when we take them all out and see the size of the pile. Good to create a check list upfront right now. That shall be my Sunday project. And a search for flameproof pouches. Thanks again.
When politicians talk about settled science, know that science is never settled. When politicians claim that 98% of scientists agree, know that dessenting voices are defunded, cancelled, fired, tarred and feathered. Global warming and the covid19 vaccine efficacy are examples where the preferred narrative is the only permitted and dessenting opinions are not met with debate but instead with retribution. Particularly weak are the arguments that the planet is warming at an unprecedented rate with catastrophic consequences only preventable by government intervention and mandate. This is of course based on climate models which are pipe dreams of their crafters and have failed to predict anything accurately. As a scientist, it is disheartening to witness the politicization of that which should have no political component. The word "science" has just become another tool in the quest for political power and wealth. If you mix science and politics, you get politics. Surely some are getting rich and others powerful from the green scam, but for most, our money has been wasted and our lives diminished.
Science is a verb; not a noun. It is active, dynamic and ever-changing. As intended. "Settled science" is a fraudulent statement right out of the starting gate.
Nuclear is minimally used in Germany and like most of Europe, they recycle spent fuel rods. Solar/Wind has been their emphasis for well over two decades. So, my question to the author stands at how are they managing the risks of clean energy. Thanks for you reply, too.
Good article. Though I would like to point out that not all batteries and battery storage facilities are created equal. Elon Musks systems are excellent. I own two Tesla’s and have a Tesla Power Wall being installed soon.
The fire you mention at the Moss Landing battery facility in California was not at the Tesla battery facility but at the Vistra Energy battery storage facility located at the same site. While there is a separate Tesla-operated battery storage facility nearby, it was the Vistra facility that caught fire.
We all know that you love your Tesla car and power wall and you should be free to buy them as well as I should be free to buy a gas car and cook and heat with gas. Do you buy these things because you believe that they are in some way ensuring habitability of planet earth for future generations? Maybe you just think they are superior products. I would like to know the basis of your enthusiasm for all things electric.
Yeah my love of the electric car/storage systems is not a political statement, nor is it a condemnation of non electric vehicles or systems. I am basically lazy and cheap. I traded in my two Mercedes for two Tesla's for five reasons none of which are political or social statements. 1) I HATE the inconvenience of going to a gas station. I love waking up each day to a fully charged vehicle. It just saves me a lot of time and aggravation. I have not been to a gas station in 7 years, don't miss it. I don't even know what the price of gas is. 2) As a perk from Tesla for being an early adopter I got lifetime free supercharging on both cars. I can literally drive all over the country the rest of my life for free. 3) I compared the cost of gas and maintenance for my two Mercedes that I traded for the Tesla's, to the cost of electricity and maintenance for my two Tesla's. For 8 years and counting I have saved hundreds of dollars every month. 4) I was, and still am, fascinated with the Full Self Drive technology. I applied to the Tesla one month driving monitoring required to become a beta tester and I passed. So I have been a beta tester for a couple years. This let me have access to the early versions of full self drive before they were released to the public, so I have been able to watch it evolve. It is amazing. It started out like a drunk teenager that was scary. But recently for example I drove a 150 mile round trip with a combination of city, freeway, and canyon driving, including navigating a construction zone with cones and flagmen diverting traffic to another lane, and I did not touch my steering wheel or my pedals one single time. It was super impressive. It still has a long way to go, but it is amazing technology and developing fast. 5) Which brings me to my fifth and final reason, if Full Self Drive succeeds as planned, and it appears it will, then I should be able to buy two new Tesla's, and keep my 'old' Tesla's and the old tesla's can be logged in as part of the Tesla Full Self Drive taxi fleet and make me money turning the car into an investment. May not happen, but if it does it would be cool. Those are my reasons, lazy and cheap, no big 'statement' :-)
You lucked out. Tesla discontinued the 'free super charger for life' back in 2018, and it was only on the S and X. But with declining sales on model S's they've reinstated it last December but only for the S model.
Yeah totally, it was an early adopter perk, we also bought FSD for both our cars when Tesla was tight on cash and had a sale for $4,000 each car. I think now you can subscribe monthly. The usual price has fluctuated from 8-15,000. So far best car I have ever had, 8 years and never did a thing to it but put in wiper fluid and air in the tires. Fingers crossed.
That's an oxymoron stating you hate the inconvenience of a gas station, but what about going on a trip and having to wait in line at a charging station? As an engineer designing military hardware, there's no such thing as "full self-drive" succeeding. It's a pipe dream, trust me. Through statistical analysis of anything, there's a failure rate. It might be small, but it will be able to kill someone in the long term .... you know, ticking time bombs. Anything I've ever designed for military use has been analyzed for a failure rate. This has always been one of my gripes with Elon is using people as Guinea pigs to test his self-driving system. If you think really hard, you'll come up with a situation(s) in which Tesla self-driving system doesn't match the human brain as to recognizing and defining a potentially deadly threat.
Hi Bill, well you seem to know almost nothing about Tesla's I can tell by your statements. Your statement about waiting in line to charge tells me you get most of your information not from facts or real life experience but from click bait headlines. First let's look at your kinda funny statement "That's an oxymoron stating you hate the inconvenience of a gas station but what about going on a trip and having to wait in line at a charging station. To begin with the cars can go 325 miles without a charge, so 90% of the 'trips' I take don't require any charge at all. So if that is true of most people, then most of their driving is not long trips. That means they all need to go to the gas station all the time, no matter if they go on a long trip or not, you see where I am going? They have to regular go to the gas station even if they never leave town. I do not. I have two home chargers and wake up each day to a 'full tank'. So no wait, no need for any charging. So you see it is not an oxymoron at all right?
Now, since we debunked that misconception of yours let's debunk the rest of your statement in that regard. Let's say you do take a long trip. I already pointed out that my supercharging is free for life, so it costs me zero. You will pay for gas every step of the way. But I digress, I have owned two Tesla's for 8 years, and have driven tens of thousands of miles all over on long trips and never once, let me repeat that so you do not miss it, never once have I ever waited in line for a Tesla charger. Not once. Now is it possible somebody somewhere had to wait at a charger, or wait at a gas station for a pump? I suppose so. But I have never experienced that. In fact these days most hotels have a charger, even the Ahwahnee in the middle of Yosemite valley charges your car for you right at the hotel. In addition you seem totally unaware that Tesla's monitor the stalls at charging stations and can direct you to a less busy nearby charger if needed. So, that debunks the rest of your statement on that.
Now let's tackle your click bait logic on Full Self Drive shall we? Just for fun. OK ready? Here we go. You state tht the Tesla self driving system doesn't match the human brain. Well remember it is still learning and in development so we can't say when it is complete what it's capabilities are,
but already we know it sees far more than a human can see and can react far quicker than a human can. This is well known, I am on several Tesla forums and have been for years, the number of posts where FSD reacted say as a child or deer ran across the road faster than the driver could have are becoming common place, it is getting better and better. But think of it this way. At this point in time, FSD requires a human to monitor it, so the real question is what is better a human alone, or a human backed up by FSD technology. As someone who was a beta Tester for FSD and have driven tens of thousands of miles with and without it, unlike you, I can speak from real world experience. You are better off at this point in time with a human driver backed up by FSD, and I believe in the future the human component will be less and less until at some point humans are not required at all. Will that be 2 years or 20 years, we do not know. As for FSD be a 'threat' let me again remind you, at this stage it requires Human over sight, so if there is an issue, can you guess who caused it? Hint: the correct answer is the human who is responsible for oversight.
If you are laboring under any additional misconceptions perhaps I can shed light on those for you as well. Happy to help you.
Thanks for taking the time. Watching football, so I'll be quick. On the driving system it will take three redundant self-driving systems to assure a hardware failure doesn't cause everything to go nuts. Much like it takes three navigation systems on an aircraft for redundancy. There are two things, design flaws not defining all conditions (design oversight) and then design hardware failures which can be calculated as failures per million hours. This takes in the failure possibility of every component, such as a resistor, diode, transistor, capacitor, integrated circuit, inductor ... you name it. Stuff breaks. The other failures that occur are caused by weird operational factors that popup over time. Since I know too much in this area, I wouldn't touch a self-driving vehicle if my life depended on it. And the designs are only as good as the engineers designing it. Just for your information, I understand Elon's method of design ... it's less initial design and more by evolving trial and error. Back to the game.
Enjoy your game! Well I guess that's why folks like Elon are moving the world forward on multiple fronts and folks like you, well, watch football games. Fair enough amigo..
As an engineer, I find a Tesla to be a fascinating, a really well-designed product in most aspects ... but the battery system is a turn-off. If I didn't know as much as I do about lithium batteries, I could see playing around with one ... just to take apart if for no other reason and I would sell the battery ASAP. The last thing I would want to in my garage is an electric vehicle.
Also an engineer - their battery and management technology is amazing. But the actual automotive part of Tesla is not cutting edge. For the next few of walks, just look at how poor some of the panel gaps are. Someone has found duct-taped stacked washers under the panels of new cybertrucks to fix fit issues.
My son noted - and I think he's spot on - that they are a battery manufacturing company - that just happened to put some in automobiles. He's designed and make his own LiPos and BMS systems.
But he also thinks Nissan is really a bank and they just make cars to sell to people who want a new car but only have a credit rating of 600 or less.....
The panel gap stuff has been a problem with Tesla for many years. One of Tesla's engineers should go work undercover at a Mercedes plant and learn something. But the Tesla internal driving mechanics, thermal engineering is quite interesting and clever. Although I'm an electrical guy, thermal engineering is a side interest because heat is most likely the number one issue causing failures. I say this because I design small signal circuits, but also power electronics which is sensitive to heat.
I sometimes wonder about Americans making the fit of automotive body parts look good. There could be one of a few things, (1) workers think things look good enough and stop optimizing the fit of things, or (2) workers are lazy and simply don't care how things look or are they (3) completely unaware and wouldn't know a good fit from a bad fit! I think it's the latter a lot of the time. You can point things out and they don't know what you are talking about.
Some of it might also be that automakers have patented various assembly methods for vehicle manufacturing. So maybe figuring out how to put a fender on without infringing on a BMW patent is difficult.
I am unaware of any car manufacture or style that does not burn up. The rate of gas cars burning up or exploding in various scenarios far far exceeds that of Tesla fires from what I have seen. The most recent data shows that globally there have been fewer than 250 reported Tesla fires, far below fires on other vehicles. Data also indicates that there is one Tesla fire for every 210 million miles traveled, which is 10X less than the rate of fires on other vehicles which average one fire per 19 million miles. So yeah, cars burn. If you want to increase your chances of your car burning apparently you would buy a gas powered car. If you want to reduce your chances of your car burning, apparently you would buy a Tesla.
Ya, but when a Tesla burns, it burns and burns and burns ... till a day later it's totally worthless. While it burns someone has to be standing around making sure it doesn't catch anything else on fire. It is a "unique" piece of uncontrollable, burning machinery when it is on fire. I wonder what the unexplainable "caught on fire" comparison is of Tesla's and gas-powered cars parked in a home garage. I would never park a Tesla in a home garage. If it caught on fire, then kiss off the house.
Saving fossil fuels under the earth for humans to use billions of years later was a gift of nature or just one more stage in the natural evolution of life on this planet. We are just recycling what was already put in place. Not adding anything new; just transforming natural products and releasing them back into nature. In a geologic time frame.
Petroleum is just millions/billions of years of collected solar energy stored by plants. (Plants and their leaves are God’s idea of photovoltaic solar panels and the plant converts the energy collected and stored it as oil)
I wonder what the consequences are of having this potentially un-extingishable flammable battery storage facility near to the La Goleta Gas Field, a gas storage reservoir with a maximum capacity of 21.5 BILLION cubic feet. Located adjacent to UCSB.
Just like I wonder about the sub-sea-level underground parking garage planned for the new hotel being approved to rise on the 101 near the Big Fig. When, not if, the garage floods and there happens to be a Tesla parked there......
Even as messed up as the postal service currently is, it’s a policy not to ship lithium batteries on aircraft. So why do airlines allow all its passengers to have phones and electronics? Like kind of playing a game of chance I guess. Kind of think if there was a fire that can’t be extinguished would be a disaster.
And ... think of this. Since you could bring a laptop on board a plane, the Lithium battery could be used to attempt to bring an aircraft down. Simply remove the battery from the laptop and have had it rigged to self-destruct!
Advocates for green energy seem to want battery storage, wind and solar farms passed and implemented without much public discussion or scrutiny. The battery facility in Goleta is not far from where I live and right next to an apartment complex. I don’t recall any public hearings, EIR or CEQA discussion when this was proposed. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention. Ironically, the SCE booster LNG power plant not far, was mothballed a few years ago in Goleta, alongside the 101. I don’t recall a lot of public discussion about the impacts of its closure either. People are starting to ask serious questions about green energy. The folks in Morro Bay are now pushing back on a proposed wind farm impacting commercial fishing and wildlife.
We all like the benefits of battery technology in our everyday life. I love my Ebike and think they are great but also mindful of potential hazards. The maritime disaster of the Conception, killing 34 people was linked to charging lithium batteries which may have overheated and caused the deadly fire.
It should be obvious to all that “green” projects appear to have not nearly the regulatory hurdles that fossil fuels have. In fact, it can be argued our elected officials and non elected officials (CCC) are doing everything in their power to end fossil fuels production permanently! This needs to change!
Very timely and thought provoking article. An issue that needs to be addressed sooner than later as the trend to go battery run on everything is, although convenient, more hazardous than most of us initially thought. Thanks for the good info Andy.
another Good article, Thanks Andy…brings to mind “smart meters” that have been installed in over 13 million California homes…
In a wildfire scenario, intense radiant heat from neighboring fires could cause the battery to overheat, potentially igniting the meter and surrounding materials.
The 12,000+ structures destroyed in the Palisades and surrounding wildfires leave us with critical Qs:
How many of these homes had smart meters equipped with lithium-ion batteries?
Did these batteries contribute to the fires or worsen the destruction?
Lithium-ion batteries are potential ticking time bombs that could burn down our homes. If the fire doesn't kill you, the emitted gasses will. This is an area of common sense that always begs the question for me, "Why is it OK to stink up the neighborhood with a burning Tesla, yet someone working on their air conditioner with refrigerant is prohibited which in comparison is harmless." The reason is because of Dumb Dems ruling the country, that's why we have super dumb problems. Build nuclear energy for the country and be done with battery power. Even Tesla's new 4680 battery replacement has serious issues ... just get rid of these damn things!
I keep waiting for energy planners and water agencies to do what Israel does. Massive power plants next to massive desalination water systems, turning Mediterranean salt water into drinking water. They are filling up the Sea of Galilee, and supplying much of the water to neighboring Jordan . If Bill Gates can build a nuclear power plant to power the huge power needs of AI, why can’t nuclear be used to solve our electricity demand and power desalination ?
I’m not as scientifically well versed in the philosophy of just WHY this strong push for EV’s E-bikes, E-scooters has been so embraced by government ~ other than greed from the manufacturers, of course). How everybody got onboard of this NOT GREEN AT ALL idea is beyond my comprehension! I suppose it’s another one of those “follow the money” type of notions? Wasn’t ANYONE thinking of the downsides of creating all this EV nonsense?
I’ve watched horrific videos of cars igniting in underground garages caught by security cameras… another one on the Highwire (Del Bigtree did an investigative report on just how “green” these batteries are!) and it showed a man trapped in an elevator with a battery that caught fire ~
There’s too much of a ridiculous push to change over to a system that doesn’t seem to be well thought out.
Oh yeah, it SOUNDS like a good idea…. until rational thinking kicks in!
Just WHAT exactly does it take to produce these batteries? Hmmmmm! Oh, and what happens to them when
they die? Starting to not sound very green to me!
It’s BEYOND IRONY: we in California are encouraged to lessen the electric burden to help the “grid”… but can someone please explain to me how a multitude of folks trying to charge their EV’s while I’m doing “my part” by not using appliances during those “peak hours” makes any sense at all?
I’m not being snarky ~ I honestly want to know because it’s not at all making sense to my uneducated brain!
How can they even push EVs in a state where they’re trying to lessen the draw for the grid? Someone please tell me? (Thanks!)
You seem to understand this better than John Kerry or Al Gore.
Virtue-signaling is a powerful drug for the Left - a mind-altering drug. You are asking excellent questions, Evelyne. Thank you.
Even leftist film maker Michael Moore raised these issues in a little noticed documentary more than a few years ago, when he concluded there was no green "green energy technology". A good film to reconsider again today, since his prior fan base appears to have rejected his warnings at the time.
Planet of the Humans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE
It is useful to compare the scientific consensus regarding covid 19 vs global warming. The shorter time scale of the evolution of the covid crisis has revealed the scientific consensus to be dynamic and political but not evidence based. In time perhaps champions of global warming policy will need the protection just granted Fauci, in 10,000 years.
Several interesting points. One is that you'd provide a link where climate change due to human activities is a given. Second - there has been lots of pushback to the accuracy of the documentary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Humans#Factual_accuracy
Wikipedia does have a path to solvency via a name change to the more descriptive and accurate name dickipedia.
Of COURSE there has! Wikipedia for one is heavily censored and is not a super trustworthy source of any information ~ demonstrated by how they quickly flip flopped with Dr Malone! One week he’d discovered and was given credit for developing the mRNA technology… next week only mention was that he was an antivaxxer (more like vax injured!) and no credit given. This behavior was hit upon in the films.
Dear J Livingston: WOW.🙀
Thank you for your reply. Thank you for teaching me new terminology (virtue signaling…had to look it up!), and the link to that BEYOND SOBERING movie. WOW….
Quite disheartening, not altogether surprising.
If I could wave my magic wand, I’d make that movie REQUIRED watching not only for the educational system, but as relieved as I am that Kamala isn’t president, I would respectfully ask the Trump administration to PLEASE watch it also. (I realize that President Trump IS indeed a very astute and accomplished businessman, but I also want to believe that he also cares for a BALANCE)
Though it left quite a heavy bowling ball in the gut saddened feeling (only way I can describe the physical effect watching it had on me!), I hope and pray “the masses” will continue to WAKE UP and smell the (sustainably grown) coffee.
Humans simply must stop trying to be playing God, and simply must try to find a way to live more so in harmony with Mother Nature’s
delicate balance instead of trying to dominate everything they touch. (Watching a movie called “Food, Inc.” was another eye opener ~ sorry, I don’t have that link)
Do I personally have any great ideas? Less consumption, more walking or riding public transportation…
Again, I greatly appreciate the insight and your reply. *SIGH*!
bus, less private jets polluting the skies… I don’t know. Food for thought, though!
Evelyne, thanks for taking the time to watch the Michael Moore documentary. Here is another very good one to bring balance to current and important future discussions: "Climate: the Cold Truth" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31851190/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
@J Livingston: Thank you once again! Another great film that boils it all down to the same old agenda (greed, power, CONTROL). It’s been a real eye-opener these past few years… the Plandemic with its fear propaganda was quite the ice-breaker in my trust of what was being spewed as “The Science”… things didn’t make sense. How very naive for me to think that the Green Agenda wasn’t bred of the same kind of financial politics.
Interesting to learn that what happened to our brightest and best scientific minds in medicine happened to renowned climate scientists as well. (…or anyone else that doesn’t agree or dares to question).
Thank you for my eye-opening education today! I’m appreciative of the validation of what intuitively felt like more corruption. Wowza. I’ve got to give credit where it’s due…One thing that Biden did extremely well during his four years in office: He absolutely excelled in making our nation more divisive, angry, and
fearful of one another than any
other president in history. Neighbor pitted against neighbor…. Ugh! I’m so glad that is in the past. The fact that Trump wants to stop the green agenda is a breath of fresh air! I’ve never witnessed politics so off the deep end in my life, and am looking forward to NORMALCY. Might take awhile for the “coolaid crowd” to regain perspective (or not!), but in the meantime I pray for us ALL to have more compassion for one another and to become not only tolerant of our differences (in an adult way, thank you very much…) & embrace them.
Am I a dreamer? Perhaps. I don’t necessarily think that’s a negative quality. I very much DO appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions and explore issues that I personally feel ought to be taken into consideration. Hopefully I’m not the only one that watched these two eye-opening movies. I will attempt to share them with folks that are hellbent on believing the narrative…wish me luck 🍀
(Deepest heartfelt gratitude!)
It has been hard for a lot of us to live in this very liberal media, one-party dominant town and not have a place to explore other viewpoints. Enjoy the exploration that SB Current now offers. Censorship, both social and actual, by most if not all local institutions has felt very oppressive. It is a relief to begin to breathe again.
But always keeping one's guard up at the same time. All pendulums do swing to excess, until new forces push back in the other direction again. As we are seeing right now.
Mob hysteria does continue rear its head from time to time - from something like the McCarthy Era of the 1950's, threats of nuclear annihilation, actual global conflagrations, to "pandemics", to the New Age group think confrontations like EST or the various transformative cultural revolutions many of our lives have already witnessed and weathered.
The task does remain to build one's own personal bedrock. Times of change, times of fear, times of vulnerability are the one constant. Those require input from many resources; not just one.
We will be in for another tumultuous next few years as we confront what our original government compact created with each other 250 years ago actually means today in a world very different from the one's the Founders were experiencing, yet human existential fundamentals do remain the same. Welcome to the journey.
ALSO! I forgot to add: what happens when you’re trapped in an EV car that crashed and caught fire, but emergency personnel cannot do much because they can’t extinguish the fires? 😳
We should ban all electric vehicles for being hazardous! Starting with Teslas.
Nothing the Dems do makes any sense virtually most of the time. The Dems apply the "No Commonsense Rule," which often is simply that which is opposite of the Repubs.
You are very smart!
Liberals NEVER think of the unintended consequences!
Andy Caldwell is a treasure. I have been wondering as well about the batteries in ev's and possibly home energy storage systems contributing to the LA fires. People in my neighborhood are concerned about the brush as fuel for fires, but I am concerned about all the ev's. Do the insurance companies share my concern? I would much rather breathe the combustion products of a brush fire than a lithium ion battery fire. This is part of my more general concern that the people in decision making positions are not capable of critical, systemic thinking. They take "campaign donations", which are legalized bribes, and follow the fads. A civilization can not stand for long without rational planning on the part of its decision makers.
In Dalton, GA I've noticed the backyards of the homes in the neighborhood has enough brush (lots of dead leaves) to cause a serious fire with a little wind. Looks like brush goes unnoticed until it's too late to do anything about it. Vines growing up trees around here kills trees. Another issue ... just says people just don't notice stuff, both Dems and Republicans.
Kudzu !
Aren’t lithium batteries the culprit in the dive boat disaster years ago? (Along with lack of crew watch…) Scary to think you could be living in a high-density project with all your neighbors owning these ticking time bombs. Sleep well, over that underground garage. 🫣😱
Ya, lithium batteries are everywhere. Your DeWalt tools, laptop computers, notebooks, cellphones, cameras, etc. Drone batteries are even more dangerous.
I worry now when we travel, all the lithium battery equipment now left unmonitored at home. Unplug them all? Remove tham all and place in a fire safe zone? What are the best practices today keeping oneself lithium battery fire-safe?
There are flameproof pouches available for storing removable batteries. Outside somewhere is a good place to store them. If in on trips, ... items in a bathtub overnight during travels. If you haven't received a recall on older laptops, you are probably safe.
Don't use a battery with any known or visible damage, including leaking and swelling. If your battery comes into contact with water, stop using it immediately and don’t use it again. If a battery ever catches fire, do not use water to put it out as this may spread the fire. Charge batteries properly, never overcharge or discharge them beyond the recommended limits. Store batteries in a cool and dry place. Regularly check batteries for any damage. Handle batteries with care due to potential fire hazards and explosions.
Drone batteries, typically lithium-polymer (Li-Po) or nickel-metal hydride (Ni-MH), demand careful attention due to their potential hazards: 1. Lithium particles can ignite on contact with oxygen, and exposure to moisture can lead to dangerous reactions, 2. Handling drone batteries are particularly dangerous, and they are highly explosive if not handled properly and 3. Over charging, discharging, and physical damage can all cause internal shorts facilitating rapid discharge of the battery’s stored potential, resulting in a buildup of heat and hydrogen: a recipe for disaster. The more energy packed in a battery, the more dangerous it is.
Printed and saved, BR. Thank you!
Leaf blowers, vacuum cleaners, all cordless door prep, shop and garden equipment - probably shocking when we take them all out and see the size of the pile. Good to create a check list upfront right now. That shall be my Sunday project. And a search for flameproof pouches. Thanks again.
I prefer the old way
Me, too…🙁
In a sane world this foreboding well written article would merit a front page splash on LA or NY Times. Unfortunately we are living in bizarro world.
I live on the east coast and didn’t hear one peep about the Moss Landing fire. ‘Nuf not said.
When politicians talk about settled science, know that science is never settled. When politicians claim that 98% of scientists agree, know that dessenting voices are defunded, cancelled, fired, tarred and feathered. Global warming and the covid19 vaccine efficacy are examples where the preferred narrative is the only permitted and dessenting opinions are not met with debate but instead with retribution. Particularly weak are the arguments that the planet is warming at an unprecedented rate with catastrophic consequences only preventable by government intervention and mandate. This is of course based on climate models which are pipe dreams of their crafters and have failed to predict anything accurately. As a scientist, it is disheartening to witness the politicization of that which should have no political component. The word "science" has just become another tool in the quest for political power and wealth. If you mix science and politics, you get politics. Surely some are getting rich and others powerful from the green scam, but for most, our money has been wasted and our lives diminished.
Science is a verb; not a noun. It is active, dynamic and ever-changing. As intended. "Settled science" is a fraudulent statement right out of the starting gate.
How are countries like Germany managing the risk of alternative energy sources?
Nuclear back-up power. Plus I believe they had to go back to coal too.
Nuclear is minimally used in Germany and like most of Europe, they recycle spent fuel rods. Solar/Wind has been their emphasis for well over two decades. So, my question to the author stands at how are they managing the risks of clean energy. Thanks for you reply, too.
LOL. Misread the "risks" to mean when there isn't enough green energy to keep functioning. Then what? Thanks for the correction.
Good article. Though I would like to point out that not all batteries and battery storage facilities are created equal. Elon Musks systems are excellent. I own two Tesla’s and have a Tesla Power Wall being installed soon.
The fire you mention at the Moss Landing battery facility in California was not at the Tesla battery facility but at the Vistra Energy battery storage facility located at the same site. While there is a separate Tesla-operated battery storage facility nearby, it was the Vistra facility that caught fire.
We all know that you love your Tesla car and power wall and you should be free to buy them as well as I should be free to buy a gas car and cook and heat with gas. Do you buy these things because you believe that they are in some way ensuring habitability of planet earth for future generations? Maybe you just think they are superior products. I would like to know the basis of your enthusiasm for all things electric.
Yeah my love of the electric car/storage systems is not a political statement, nor is it a condemnation of non electric vehicles or systems. I am basically lazy and cheap. I traded in my two Mercedes for two Tesla's for five reasons none of which are political or social statements. 1) I HATE the inconvenience of going to a gas station. I love waking up each day to a fully charged vehicle. It just saves me a lot of time and aggravation. I have not been to a gas station in 7 years, don't miss it. I don't even know what the price of gas is. 2) As a perk from Tesla for being an early adopter I got lifetime free supercharging on both cars. I can literally drive all over the country the rest of my life for free. 3) I compared the cost of gas and maintenance for my two Mercedes that I traded for the Tesla's, to the cost of electricity and maintenance for my two Tesla's. For 8 years and counting I have saved hundreds of dollars every month. 4) I was, and still am, fascinated with the Full Self Drive technology. I applied to the Tesla one month driving monitoring required to become a beta tester and I passed. So I have been a beta tester for a couple years. This let me have access to the early versions of full self drive before they were released to the public, so I have been able to watch it evolve. It is amazing. It started out like a drunk teenager that was scary. But recently for example I drove a 150 mile round trip with a combination of city, freeway, and canyon driving, including navigating a construction zone with cones and flagmen diverting traffic to another lane, and I did not touch my steering wheel or my pedals one single time. It was super impressive. It still has a long way to go, but it is amazing technology and developing fast. 5) Which brings me to my fifth and final reason, if Full Self Drive succeeds as planned, and it appears it will, then I should be able to buy two new Tesla's, and keep my 'old' Tesla's and the old tesla's can be logged in as part of the Tesla Full Self Drive taxi fleet and make me money turning the car into an investment. May not happen, but if it does it would be cool. Those are my reasons, lazy and cheap, no big 'statement' :-)
You lucked out. Tesla discontinued the 'free super charger for life' back in 2018, and it was only on the S and X. But with declining sales on model S's they've reinstated it last December but only for the S model.
Yeah totally, it was an early adopter perk, we also bought FSD for both our cars when Tesla was tight on cash and had a sale for $4,000 each car. I think now you can subscribe monthly. The usual price has fluctuated from 8-15,000. So far best car I have ever had, 8 years and never did a thing to it but put in wiper fluid and air in the tires. Fingers crossed.
That's an oxymoron stating you hate the inconvenience of a gas station, but what about going on a trip and having to wait in line at a charging station? As an engineer designing military hardware, there's no such thing as "full self-drive" succeeding. It's a pipe dream, trust me. Through statistical analysis of anything, there's a failure rate. It might be small, but it will be able to kill someone in the long term .... you know, ticking time bombs. Anything I've ever designed for military use has been analyzed for a failure rate. This has always been one of my gripes with Elon is using people as Guinea pigs to test his self-driving system. If you think really hard, you'll come up with a situation(s) in which Tesla self-driving system doesn't match the human brain as to recognizing and defining a potentially deadly threat.
Hi Bill, well you seem to know almost nothing about Tesla's I can tell by your statements. Your statement about waiting in line to charge tells me you get most of your information not from facts or real life experience but from click bait headlines. First let's look at your kinda funny statement "That's an oxymoron stating you hate the inconvenience of a gas station but what about going on a trip and having to wait in line at a charging station. To begin with the cars can go 325 miles without a charge, so 90% of the 'trips' I take don't require any charge at all. So if that is true of most people, then most of their driving is not long trips. That means they all need to go to the gas station all the time, no matter if they go on a long trip or not, you see where I am going? They have to regular go to the gas station even if they never leave town. I do not. I have two home chargers and wake up each day to a 'full tank'. So no wait, no need for any charging. So you see it is not an oxymoron at all right?
Now, since we debunked that misconception of yours let's debunk the rest of your statement in that regard. Let's say you do take a long trip. I already pointed out that my supercharging is free for life, so it costs me zero. You will pay for gas every step of the way. But I digress, I have owned two Tesla's for 8 years, and have driven tens of thousands of miles all over on long trips and never once, let me repeat that so you do not miss it, never once have I ever waited in line for a Tesla charger. Not once. Now is it possible somebody somewhere had to wait at a charger, or wait at a gas station for a pump? I suppose so. But I have never experienced that. In fact these days most hotels have a charger, even the Ahwahnee in the middle of Yosemite valley charges your car for you right at the hotel. In addition you seem totally unaware that Tesla's monitor the stalls at charging stations and can direct you to a less busy nearby charger if needed. So, that debunks the rest of your statement on that.
Now let's tackle your click bait logic on Full Self Drive shall we? Just for fun. OK ready? Here we go. You state tht the Tesla self driving system doesn't match the human brain. Well remember it is still learning and in development so we can't say when it is complete what it's capabilities are,
but already we know it sees far more than a human can see and can react far quicker than a human can. This is well known, I am on several Tesla forums and have been for years, the number of posts where FSD reacted say as a child or deer ran across the road faster than the driver could have are becoming common place, it is getting better and better. But think of it this way. At this point in time, FSD requires a human to monitor it, so the real question is what is better a human alone, or a human backed up by FSD technology. As someone who was a beta Tester for FSD and have driven tens of thousands of miles with and without it, unlike you, I can speak from real world experience. You are better off at this point in time with a human driver backed up by FSD, and I believe in the future the human component will be less and less until at some point humans are not required at all. Will that be 2 years or 20 years, we do not know. As for FSD be a 'threat' let me again remind you, at this stage it requires Human over sight, so if there is an issue, can you guess who caused it? Hint: the correct answer is the human who is responsible for oversight.
If you are laboring under any additional misconceptions perhaps I can shed light on those for you as well. Happy to help you.
Thanks for taking the time. Watching football, so I'll be quick. On the driving system it will take three redundant self-driving systems to assure a hardware failure doesn't cause everything to go nuts. Much like it takes three navigation systems on an aircraft for redundancy. There are two things, design flaws not defining all conditions (design oversight) and then design hardware failures which can be calculated as failures per million hours. This takes in the failure possibility of every component, such as a resistor, diode, transistor, capacitor, integrated circuit, inductor ... you name it. Stuff breaks. The other failures that occur are caused by weird operational factors that popup over time. Since I know too much in this area, I wouldn't touch a self-driving vehicle if my life depended on it. And the designs are only as good as the engineers designing it. Just for your information, I understand Elon's method of design ... it's less initial design and more by evolving trial and error. Back to the game.
Enjoy your game! Well I guess that's why folks like Elon are moving the world forward on multiple fronts and folks like you, well, watch football games. Fair enough amigo..
As an engineer, I find a Tesla to be a fascinating, a really well-designed product in most aspects ... but the battery system is a turn-off. If I didn't know as much as I do about lithium batteries, I could see playing around with one ... just to take apart if for no other reason and I would sell the battery ASAP. The last thing I would want to in my garage is an electric vehicle.
Also an engineer - their battery and management technology is amazing. But the actual automotive part of Tesla is not cutting edge. For the next few of walks, just look at how poor some of the panel gaps are. Someone has found duct-taped stacked washers under the panels of new cybertrucks to fix fit issues.
My son noted - and I think he's spot on - that they are a battery manufacturing company - that just happened to put some in automobiles. He's designed and make his own LiPos and BMS systems.
But he also thinks Nissan is really a bank and they just make cars to sell to people who want a new car but only have a credit rating of 600 or less.....
The panel gap stuff has been a problem with Tesla for many years. One of Tesla's engineers should go work undercover at a Mercedes plant and learn something. But the Tesla internal driving mechanics, thermal engineering is quite interesting and clever. Although I'm an electrical guy, thermal engineering is a side interest because heat is most likely the number one issue causing failures. I say this because I design small signal circuits, but also power electronics which is sensitive to heat.
I sometimes wonder about Americans making the fit of automotive body parts look good. There could be one of a few things, (1) workers think things look good enough and stop optimizing the fit of things, or (2) workers are lazy and simply don't care how things look or are they (3) completely unaware and wouldn't know a good fit from a bad fit! I think it's the latter a lot of the time. You can point things out and they don't know what you are talking about.
Some of it might also be that automakers have patented various assembly methods for vehicle manufacturing. So maybe figuring out how to put a fender on without infringing on a BMW patent is difficult.
George, you have seen Tesla's burn up, right?
I am unaware of any car manufacture or style that does not burn up. The rate of gas cars burning up or exploding in various scenarios far far exceeds that of Tesla fires from what I have seen. The most recent data shows that globally there have been fewer than 250 reported Tesla fires, far below fires on other vehicles. Data also indicates that there is one Tesla fire for every 210 million miles traveled, which is 10X less than the rate of fires on other vehicles which average one fire per 19 million miles. So yeah, cars burn. If you want to increase your chances of your car burning apparently you would buy a gas powered car. If you want to reduce your chances of your car burning, apparently you would buy a Tesla.
Ya, but when a Tesla burns, it burns and burns and burns ... till a day later it's totally worthless. While it burns someone has to be standing around making sure it doesn't catch anything else on fire. It is a "unique" piece of uncontrollable, burning machinery when it is on fire. I wonder what the unexplainable "caught on fire" comparison is of Tesla's and gas-powered cars parked in a home garage. I would never park a Tesla in a home garage. If it caught on fire, then kiss off the house.
Well my advice for you is get a horse and buggy! Problem solved.
As always, Mother Nature grants no free lunches, does not barter or haggle…no exceptions. 1st law of thermodynamics is inviolate.
No matter what you need energy for, Mother Nature sells it to us at the exact same price. No exceptions
Saving fossil fuels under the earth for humans to use billions of years later was a gift of nature or just one more stage in the natural evolution of life on this planet. We are just recycling what was already put in place. Not adding anything new; just transforming natural products and releasing them back into nature. In a geologic time frame.
All fuel = fossil fuel
No exceptions
Petroleum is just millions/billions of years of collected solar energy stored by plants. (Plants and their leaves are God’s idea of photovoltaic solar panels and the plant converts the energy collected and stored it as oil)
There is no substitute
We are still refining our design ;) 😃
I wonder what the consequences are of having this potentially un-extingishable flammable battery storage facility near to the La Goleta Gas Field, a gas storage reservoir with a maximum capacity of 21.5 BILLION cubic feet. Located adjacent to UCSB.
Just like I wonder about the sub-sea-level underground parking garage planned for the new hotel being approved to rise on the 101 near the Big Fig. When, not if, the garage floods and there happens to be a Tesla parked there......
Even as messed up as the postal service currently is, it’s a policy not to ship lithium batteries on aircraft. So why do airlines allow all its passengers to have phones and electronics? Like kind of playing a game of chance I guess. Kind of think if there was a fire that can’t be extinguished would be a disaster.
Yep. it's a game of chance. Same as living in a high fire zone.
And ... think of this. Since you could bring a laptop on board a plane, the Lithium battery could be used to attempt to bring an aircraft down. Simply remove the battery from the laptop and have had it rigged to self-destruct!
Where is the battery storage facility in Goleta?
Advocates for green energy seem to want battery storage, wind and solar farms passed and implemented without much public discussion or scrutiny. The battery facility in Goleta is not far from where I live and right next to an apartment complex. I don’t recall any public hearings, EIR or CEQA discussion when this was proposed. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention. Ironically, the SCE booster LNG power plant not far, was mothballed a few years ago in Goleta, alongside the 101. I don’t recall a lot of public discussion about the impacts of its closure either. People are starting to ask serious questions about green energy. The folks in Morro Bay are now pushing back on a proposed wind farm impacting commercial fishing and wildlife.
We all like the benefits of battery technology in our everyday life. I love my Ebike and think they are great but also mindful of potential hazards. The maritime disaster of the Conception, killing 34 people was linked to charging lithium batteries which may have overheated and caused the deadly fire.
It should be obvious to all that “green” projects appear to have not nearly the regulatory hurdles that fossil fuels have. In fact, it can be argued our elected officials and non elected officials (CCC) are doing everything in their power to end fossil fuels production permanently! This needs to change!
Very timely and thought provoking article. An issue that needs to be addressed sooner than later as the trend to go battery run on everything is, although convenient, more hazardous than most of us initially thought. Thanks for the good info Andy.
another Good article, Thanks Andy…brings to mind “smart meters” that have been installed in over 13 million California homes…
In a wildfire scenario, intense radiant heat from neighboring fires could cause the battery to overheat, potentially igniting the meter and surrounding materials.
The 12,000+ structures destroyed in the Palisades and surrounding wildfires leave us with critical Qs:
How many of these homes had smart meters equipped with lithium-ion batteries?
Did these batteries contribute to the fires or worsen the destruction?
https://www.rfsafe.com/articles/cell-phone-radiation/are-smart-meters-fueling-wildfires-a-look-at-dr-jack-kruses-claim.html
Lithium-ion batteries are potential ticking time bombs that could burn down our homes. If the fire doesn't kill you, the emitted gasses will. This is an area of common sense that always begs the question for me, "Why is it OK to stink up the neighborhood with a burning Tesla, yet someone working on their air conditioner with refrigerant is prohibited which in comparison is harmless." The reason is because of Dumb Dems ruling the country, that's why we have super dumb problems. Build nuclear energy for the country and be done with battery power. Even Tesla's new 4680 battery replacement has serious issues ... just get rid of these damn things!
I keep waiting for energy planners and water agencies to do what Israel does. Massive power plants next to massive desalination water systems, turning Mediterranean salt water into drinking water. They are filling up the Sea of Galilee, and supplying much of the water to neighboring Jordan . If Bill Gates can build a nuclear power plant to power the huge power needs of AI, why can’t nuclear be used to solve our electricity demand and power desalination ?