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Polly Frost's avatar

The valid feminist battles in this country were all won by the early 1980s. All the professional feminists should have looked for other work, but no, they doubled down by creating new ways in which women could feel discriminated or exploited by men - and they could hold positions of power. As a woman, I truly resented this. Not only did it create the new man, the Toxic Male, but a bs bunch of ways in which women could nurse whatever bad feelings they had. Look, I'm very attached to my feelings and I think all my feelings are absolutely fascinating. But I do realize that it's better for the world if I nurse my feelings through listening to, say, Patsy Cline, or writing a tragic short story, than it is to impose a bunch of regulations that just make relationships between the sexes infinitely worse in every area they come together, be it in bed or the office. And a note from my NYC writing days when I actually knew some of the famous mega-feminists - one of them had a daughter who grew up being indoctrinated by her much published and rewarded feminist mom and how'd it affect her? She married a Green Beret. And changed her name to his. So there's hope, not just for men who've been raised by feminists but for women, too. Because the “toxic male” created by feminists led to the “toxic female” and they ain't no fun either, cheering on the assassination of Charlie Kirk, when really they should be looking at Erika Kirk for a true role model.

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elce's avatar
Sep 28Edited

I remember when Betty Friedan came for a victory lap tour for her movement at UCSB a few decades ago. She was surprised when when young women in the audience came to bury her, and not praise her. They resented now being expected to do it all, instead being able to make the choice to be "just a mother". Betty was visibly shocked, as this consequence was never part of the original women's liberation equation.

My own college graduation year in 1965 was a marked by both the introduction of The Pill and the publication of her rather disjointed book The Feminine Mystique. And a white gown church wedding with full china and silver for 12, and a matching silvertea service to be the ultimate pay off for the feminine life lived well. I knew even then wedding gifs from Hunt's in Santa Barbara were highly coveted, such as that full set of silver grapefruit spoons from the groomsman, who did admit his mother picked them out.

To say that schizophrenia defined my later post-college years would be an understatement. I too saw this all unfold on the front lines.

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Polly Frost's avatar

Beautifully put, elce. I hope you'll write a full column for SB Current on this.

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TVW's avatar

Hear hear! Well done! Not many of us gray/silvered haired (or lack thereof) relics recall Hunt's china shop. Or Otts.

Ironically I walked past Hunt's old location last night and flashed (!) on the "old days....including height limits on our formerly cherished skylines. Great post...thanks.

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Jane H's avatar

I had a registry at Hunt’s for my wedding in 1973. And Ott’s was a great store! Long gone now. Santa Barbara is hardly recognizable any more sadly.

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Montecito93108's avatar

Elce - accurate summation of audience response and questions to Betty Friedan’s UCSB presentation. I was one of two moderators during the elevated exchange not anticipated by Friedan, who stated her disbelief and anger! Women attendees did not want to “eviscerate the vital role of men as fathers, heads of households” but rather sought to share in the responsibilities of providing for their family unit in times of increasing costs, and demands on parents to provide for their children, care for their elder parents, and also volunteer to “give back to community”. The initial goal of the feminist movement was to expand career opportunities and advancement for all girls and women especially those unmarried, widowed by war, abandoned with kids to feed (Reagan’s no fault divorce) or other reasons. Our options back then were teacher, nurse, secretary, nun or the label “old maid”. Many females sacrificed much to now be alarmed by the irresponsible, nihilist behavior by both genders.

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Derek Hanley's avatar

I think that all men have a personal responsibility to establish their position in life and society within their mental and physical capabilities. Despite the greater power of women in today's society, young men, if they are determined, have the opportunities to make their own way to succeed in their lives as workers, husbands and parents. It needs more effort than before because fidelity has become less valued than in the past.

I can only speak from personal experience. From 1940 until 1945, between the ages of 6 to 13, I was separated from my parents through war-time evacuations and my father's call-up into the military. Before that, we lived in London in a council house with no electricity and no bathroom. Our toilet was in the backyard. Our only form of heating was a coal fire in the living room. I had a brother 2 years younger than me and a sister 6 years younger. I returned permanently to London having experienced several different homes and people who were required by the government to take us evacuees. Some were good, some were not so good.

At the age of 13, I realized that I had to make my own way in life. In civilian life, my father was a London Bus Driver my mother worked for British Rail. As the eldest, I became responsible for looking after my siblings and preparing the evening meal. I knew then, I had to get out and beyond the life of my father and mother. My parents were loving, hardworking and constant. They were good parents and remained married until they died.

I became an Electrical Engineering Apprentice from the age of 16 until I was 21. To my great surprise, at the age of 20, I met a most lovely girl. I had no intention of marrying. But six months later, we married. I think both of our parents were shocked. It was the best and most wonderful decision I made when I asked Barbara to marry me. We started with no money; we had three children, starting 5 years after we were married. We prospered well because my wife and I worked very hard to get-head. I made two life-changing decisions with Barbara's agreement that secured opportunities for a better more prosperous life for our family.

Here we are 70 years later.

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Earl Brown's avatar

Derek - beautiful story.

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LT's avatar
Sep 28Edited

I feel for young fathers trying to raise boys in today’s society. No doubt it is very confusing nowadays to be a young man. Boys today are bombarded by confusing, virtue signaling messaging about “toxic masculinity,” while drumming into our youth that time tested societal norms are chauvinistic. Opening doors for ladies, males as the head of household etc.

Gimme a break, we never took Anzio, broke the sound barrier, built the Golden Gate Bridge or sent astronauts to the moon by being feminine.

No, it’s time to face reality and stop the charade, let men be men and women be women. Stop trying to make sissy’s out of our young men.

Ever wonder why today we have so many over represented, female fire chiefs, police chiefs, school principals, city mayors and General Officers in the military, many of which are openly lesbian? How’s that working out for us?

Don’t get me wrong, having a daughter, you want every opportunity afforded, but the reality is it a man’s world, no matter how many times we hear “you can be anything,” or that “men can now identify as female.”

Always remember that there is a reason why the highly elite Delta Force is an all male special unit within the military. Sissy’s in doubt of their own killer instinct and masculinity need not apply! This, no matter what some Judge, School Board, Social Scientist or Academic has to say.

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Jeff barton's avatar

The boy scouts now accept girls. I heard this from a young father who further told me he thought it was a good policy. I disagree. If boys are not taught to be men in the schools, their father's must step up and instill traditional male values. That of course requires that dad has not been brainwashed as well.

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Earl Brown's avatar

The Boy Scouts now accept girls!?? Are you kidding?? So now the boys not only have to carry knives and rope for emergencies, but tampons? C h e e r i s t almighty!

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Jeff barton's avatar

Yea and I believe they changed the name from boy scouts to scouting America.

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Earl Brown's avatar

LT: Love this rap, and you are so right! Makes me sick to see these faggy young men embracing their 'femine side."

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Sawbilly's avatar

Really good piece with many important points. I think SBCurrent writers and visitors might also enjoy an excellent talk on YouTube by Helen Fisher. Can I share a link? If so, here it is:

https://youtu.be/EWLbq7PlrIA?si=8fgk-9HKBS9Y97fO

Fisher’s main point is: We’re running a huge, unprecedented experiment by putting a lot of women in a lot of important positions of responsibility. How is that working out for society? Are we really better off as a society?

If a link isn’t permitted, do a search on YouTube for “Helen Andrews, Overcoming the Feminization of Culture.”

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elce's avatar
Sep 28Edited

Sawbilly, I sense this recent social revolution is working out as well as the French Revolution of the late 1700's and early 1800's. Not long after our own American Revolution. But all we did was sever our ties with England. France tried to turn their entire country upside down, from inside out. From sans culottes to sans histroire.

Within a in a few short years, the French Revolution tired to upend every single prior tradition that had made France, France under the prior centuries of the French monarchy and the Church of Rome. Including changing all the names of the days of the weeks, months and types of seasonal holidays to celebrate once they entirely tossed out the Christian calendar.

Great Courses has an excellent series on the French Revolution, taking it down to the day to day impacts, and its early devolution into the Reign of Terror. Far more went on during those short tumultuous years trying to totally remake society and erasing history, than the gauzy "rights of man" mantra it is most known for today. We can still learn much from its renewed study.

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Earl Brown's avatar

Got it, elce - "From revolution and upheaval to dullness and banality."

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elce's avatar

To begging for the return of a strong man patriarchy (Napoleon) and return to the former French monarchy ancien regime. Before you could blink, the French attempt to "remake human beings into this new enlightened ideological conformance" was over. I guess you just cannot mess with mother nature. And best they stop messing with their formerly glorious cuisine too.

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Michael Self's avatar

Fabulous, thanks!

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Pat Fish's avatar

Andy Caldwell, you are so spot on with your observations as usual. And as Polly Frost suggests, most transient aggravations can be assuaged by a good sing-along with Patsy Cline and then making a plan and accomplishing something positive. Somehow the brilliance of the Napoleon Hill method of harnessing energy into forward accomplishment got tossed by the wayside, and we went from an era of can-do to victimization. I feel so fortunate that I was taught as a child to be self-reliant. And as a result I have always worked to focus on enthusiasms rather than hindrances. And I'm old enough to have been ahead of the curve of the debilitating education now poisoning the children of America.

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Polly Frost's avatar

I'll sing Patsy Cline with you next time I have a grievance against men.

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Jeff barton's avatar

I agree that the war that engulfs America has to do with the conflict between those who want our nation to turn back towards God and his gifts such as marriage and family versus those who want us to keep turning away towards secular humanism, atheism, nihilism, and socialism/communism (where government is god with a little “g”). As with any conflict, there are two sides and the left generally and the Democrat party specifically are leading the movement against traditional Judeo-Christian biblical values. So why do so few churches address the attack on traditional values? I have attended Calvary church in Santa Barbara and never heard mention of any atrocities against our children sponsored by the Democrat party. Never heard push back against the government dictating church closure due to the covid fraud but obediently took the money and shuttered the Church. A pastor who will not address assults against the church and its values has not faith to God but faith to the institution of the church rather than its mission. Is there a church in Santa Barbara with a leadership with the courage to speak of the threats to our values and from where these threats come? A pastor who is not afraid to lose some parishioners by taking a stand against evil?

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LT's avatar
Sep 28Edited

Why does the clergy not speak out against these abominations to God? Because they legitimately fear for their lives! Just today, a LDS Church in Michigan experienced a mass shooting, followed by an apparent attempt to burn the church down. We all just recall the Catholic Church be sprayed by bullets, killing children while praying.

It will be interesting to find out the shooters “pronouns” in this latest massacre.

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Aaron Pa's avatar

Pretty sure he was a Marine Trump voter.

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Justin M. Ruhge's avatar

On Immigration

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Justin Ruhge, Lompoc, CA.

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TVW's avatar

The role of universities cannot be overstated. Not just centric to this topic but also the degeneration of many traditional norms and values...most notably for the past 50-60 years.

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elce's avatar
Sep 28Edited

Universities build on what K-12 sends them. And now K-12 builds on what Pre-K sends them. Government indoctrination sneaks closer to cradle to grave, every single day.

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Bill Clausen's avatar

(OK, getting into possibly big trouble here but...) "What attracted me to John...he was masculine, whereas so many English men are feminine" (Paraphrased) -Yoko Ono-

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Tom Fitzgerald's avatar

I cannot resist: What on this green earth attracted John to Yoko?

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Julia Gonzales's avatar

Please stop trying to make Kirk a martyr. Look up, Mahsa Amini and Alexi Navalny, these are true martyrs. Mahsa was taken into custody by Iran’s Morality Police, and somehow died in custody. Alexi died serving a 19 year prison sentence in Russia, speaking out against their oppressors, he had previously been mysteriously poisoned.

IMO: If men and boys are weak, shouldn’t you point the finger first to the parenting received in the home. First came the violent video games, then pre-teens and young teens were given cellphones, most of them without parental control, watching and listening to who knows what.

The loss of manufacturing jobs and such started in the 60’s. In fact, it was a Republican project while Reagan was in office, to outsource a lot, if not most of the manufacturing. It’s also a fact that in Republican years there’s not a big increase in jobs created, during Democrat years there’s always quite an increase in jobs created.

We have already seen what weak men and boys are capable of, since Columbine.

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Kristiann's avatar

Maybe a simple way to look at it is this. If you believe in God whether a Christian or not, the Bible says in the book of Genesis Chapter 2. verse 18: The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” Sounds like a simple concept. However, it is far from simple. If man cannot value what he creates or that God created him, how can he value what God created from him? Men are natural protectors, if they don't protect what they create themselves, how can they protect what God made from him, which is woman. Women are also natural protectors of their husband and children. There is pressure for a woman to do it all, work, raise children, etc., but the bottom line is, there is only so much time in a day and the truth is we women can't do it all. It would be a very difficult thing to keep balanced, if in a family, the woman has to do it all. The woman will need help, and man and woman are meant to compliment each other on our path to God. If the man and woman understand this 'simple' concept in the story of Creation, this will help our world. Not an easy thing for everyone, but we can try our best. I heard something awesome recently at the gas station. As I put gas in my car, there were two young men on the other side of the pumps getting gas who knew eachother and talking about how they recently purchased houses and they were enjoying their new homes. Such a great thing them and may God bless them and all young men trying to work and achieve the American Dream of owning a home for their families!

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A J Tarman's avatar

True words! While rallying a GOP crowd

with cries of 'The Clintons HAVE GOT

TO GO ' at Santa Barbara train station

2000- I was confronted by a white senior

Female--''SHUT UP YOU ENTITLED

WHITTE MALE'! Right in my face!

Really hateful!

At my daughter's USC graduation in

2007 I showed my displeasure of

Ted Koppel's rant by shifting my

Feet- Exact same words by a hateful

White lady.! Talk about censorship

And confrontation!

These radicals were entitled themselves

In trying to silence white males.

Thank God for Trump and Kirk.

The ship has been righted!

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L. Angel's avatar

While I dislike Jordan Peterson, I actually agree with some of this article. Specifically, this sentence: "Now at full throttle, the hook-up culture has replaced courtship, and porn addiction among men is epidemic." Very true and detrimental. Ironically, a couple weeks ago a young man in the comment section on here rebuffed pornography and got lambasted by SBCurrent regulars who claim they are "conservative Christians" by telling him he needed to get some "T and A" and to "get laid" because he opposed pornoraphy. I was the only one who defended him, and he and I were the only two in the comments here to oppose porn. Henry Schulte replied to us asking what is the difference between porn and the "Sistine Chapel"?

Also, kudos for getting through an article about Charlie Kirk without irresponsibly stating that a student/Tyler killed Charlie as if it is a fact that Tyler Robinson is the assassin. Carolyn Aijian did this yesterday in her article and should know better.

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DLDawson's avatar

Feminism was another play put upon America by the evildoers, in order to further break up the family unit & double the workforce, increasing the tax base and maximizing funds for their evil endeavors to take down America (and The World)…

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daniel Heald's avatar

Jordan Peterson said it best, “If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of!”

Jefferey Epstein ? Donald trump

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Jeff barton's avatar

Truly lame post. Did you put a lot of thought into it?

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Polly Frost's avatar

Men who hate Trump give meaning to the otherwise empty term “toxic masculinity.”

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daniel Heald's avatar

To see who clearly the man is has become and empty term? Get a grip on reality. Robinson

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elce's avatar
Sep 28Edited

Huh? Is it already 4:20 somewhere else.

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TVW's avatar

Good grief.

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DLDawson's avatar

Democratic donor and billionaire, Jeffrey Epstein, ran an underage child sex brothel and was convicted of soliciting underage girls for prostitution…Trump?

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Peter Scott's avatar

Trump? He just ordered the full release of the Amelia Earhart files. Evidently, at this point in time, he feels this is of more importance than releasing all the Epstein files.

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elce's avatar
Sep 28Edited

PeterS: Luckily we have over three more years of increasing government file transparencies. Hang on.

The Amelia Earhart files are of significant historic importance. Just like the release of the Seth Rich files will also be. But it is odd you parrot the same partisan disdain for this file release, that is also already blanketing the blogs on this same topic. Do you all get the same talking points at the exact same time?

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DLDawson's avatar

TALKING POINTS [4am] - private email addresses. Paid contractors.

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TVW's avatar

You obviously have some relevant facts regarding unreleased files...please share...and your source...paying close attention the correct spellings for Rachael Maddow, Joy Reid, Keith Olberman and the little fat guy on CNN, etc.

I assume you have previously discovered something of significance during your deep during for the same during the Biden Administration...right?

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daniel Heald's avatar

I love thee snide comments. The elite males being protected are from both ides of the house, military, legal and academic professions. The rot in Washington is on both sides. Deep down the establishment do not want the info to come out. This is not a Biden/trump issue. It is a 1000 girls under age girls being abused by powerful males and may be some femles too and it being buried due to embarrassment and shame. For sure the dems are using this now, partly because the dems are so out of touch with life in America.

Some of the flight loga were published in 2016 in the UK courtesy of the Daily Mail. People like Clinton, Dershowitz, Begun, Prince Andrew, Morgan Stanley, Michael Jackson, David Copperfield, Branson.

I can't be happy with holding my nose just because the team I support are now in power. Publish the truth and cleanse our society.

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TVW's avatar

Snide? You clearly present yourself as having more in-depth knowledge than most people on this topic. As you may have…however there is no substance that I have seen in that regard. Completely open to any and all info…irrespective of politics…and believe a majority of folks on this forum are as well. We are able to multitask and not monolithic in our processing of current events.

What do you have…seriously????

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DLDawson's avatar

release ‘files’ related to open investigations? shame that most people don’t understand how anything works

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elce's avatar

Appreciating men as provider-protectors and women as hearth keepers and nurturers has been tested by time immemorial and In every culture. This has not been found fundamentally wonting. Exceptions exist of course, but this essential fundamental is immutable. Which is okay.

Women's liberation did allow wider expression, when not in this fundamental relationship. But it never worked as a substitute for it. God bless that both options are now available. And that one does not come, with the price of annihilating the other.

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