I think I have read that the UCSB ingrates commandeered the cafeteria and gave away all the food.
I would be arrested and charged. We have decided only certain portions of society should be held accountable. Our law enforcement establishments have let us slip into anarchy.
The people of "Say Genocide" use a different word for the genocide of abortion, they call it "healthcare"- seriously they are like a reverse barometer.
Have you ever heard of the liberal art of logic? A tragic casualty of war is not the same thing as "abortion." Also, you can indeed say you are pro-life and recognize that this is not a genocide, there is no real relationship between the two concepts. You need to get on the right side of reality as opposed to pathological or empathic ideology.
Yesterday at Mass, the priest reminded us how Catholic teaching values all life from conception to natural death. The focus in his homily was on why assisted suicide is evil, but recognizing the sanctity of life includes recognizing the sacred in the unborn, the prisoner, the infirm, the disabled, the weak and yes, even the Palestinian. Many of the student protesters for Palestinian human rights will be caught up in movements that fall short on one or another of these areas, but that does not make them incorrect to notice the sacredness of Palestinian human beings made in the likeness and image of God, our Christian brothers and sisters who are steadfast in their witness for Christ in the Holy Land among them. Many who call themselves conservative in US politics in the US will fall short on others of these, such as the right to life of the prisoner and the duty to avoid unjust war. Rather than picking a political camp and going with their platform, we who follow Christ are called to stand up for what is morally right and against what is morally wrong, regardless of the crowd or the fad or your personal distaste for whomever else is standing up for what is morally right. We are called to be as harmless as doves and as wise as serpents. It is not enough to outsource our discernment of right and wrong to our political camp. We actually need to do our own research and discernment and do what is right, even when it is hard.
War is hell and if you engage in it, not to win, you lose. Churchill and FDR adopted the approach of Unconditional Surrender and led us in a total war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Millions of innocent civilian lives were lost in this war, but it eventuated in 75 years of peace and prosperity for these countries. What is going on in Gaza (and Ukraine for that matter) is a huge human tragedy. Israel is pursuing a similar unconditional surrender approach. Is Hamas as evil as the Nazis? And if Israel does prevail and Hamas is wiped out, will peace and prosperity come to Israel and Palestine? It is a different world and different times, but Israel lives in the shadow of the Holocaust and its legacy is manifesting itself in this current Gaza War.
Prosperity will not come to Palestine and Israel will continue to displace the native populace regardless of whether or not Hamas is in power. Ethnic cleansing doesn't require a single shot to be fired, it merely necessitates the displacement of people from their homeland.
The problem Ms. Smith is that you imply that people are saying things they are not saying. Like the way “black lives matter” implies that people don’t care about black lives is a false accusation. You are basically virtue signaling when you do the same thing like saying “even Palestinian” lives matter- no one here on the Current thinks Palestinians should be murdered, no one! No one said such a terrible thing. And then you ascribe a false nobility to the protestors, excusing their murderous stance towards the most innocent and sainting them for their care for innocent Palestinians, very disingenuous. Then you imply that all lives are worthy of equal treatment. The prisoner is not the same as the unborn child. The Hamas terrorist is not the same as an innocent Palestinian child. And then you make an absurd sweeping statement about conservatives falling short on murder and just war and it is obvious you don’t know the first thing about what “many” conservatives think. And then super ironically, you say people pick a political platform and just go with it unthinkingly, but not you... You should check your superiority complex and recognize your contradictions, you don’t really know what you are talking about. The only people who “outsource” their morality to a platform is people like you, but you are too blind to see it! We don’t need to do our own research, that is the very radical individualism that is the problem, we need to follow Christ’s commands. Shame on you for these fake self-righteous words, you are working for evil and don’t even seem like you know it.
I am Catholic so I know that we who follow Christ are and have been for millennia, the New Israel according to Him. The Good News about Christ is He came to preach about a heavenly kingdom, He was not a conqueror. If you fell for the psyop Scofield Reference Bible Con that says Christians should support violating every commandment to support a new state that would persecute Christians in the Holy Land as long as you call it "Israel", then you are going to have to bravely face the deception to free yourself from the Zionism scam. There is no manipulation on my part. Our duty if we are Christian is to follow Christ's teachings, not what helps us fit in or avoid persecution by those who are of this world. It is my belief that the best way to do that properly is with the support and wisdom in the magisterium of The Catholic Church founded by Christ, not a Church that has taken the bible to interpret on their own. Beware of anyone calling himself a Christian leader who has not seen through this oxymoronic "Christian Zionism" scam. That is the blind leading the blind. Yes, I do have disdain for the entire scam of Zionism because it is a satanic murderous fraud that is not only terrible for all the people touched by it in the Holy Land, it is also engulfing our own country in corruption and blood lust. A society that thinks it can flourish while ignoring the moral law is deluding itself. John Adams noted that our system of government is unsuitable absent a moral people. So we have a duty to our country as well to face this very important moral questions of our day and get it right.
S.2- it is hard to return comments to your ideological stance- to call the tragedy in Palestine is an abuse of speech you clearly don't understand. To be "on the right side of history" is of no interest to me, but to be on the right side of morality is. I am pro-life, what you are calling "abortion" because "pregnant women are causalities of war" is another abuse of speech. If I think Israel has a right to defend itself, that is not carte blanch support of all of Israel's terrible ideas or political positions. You need to wake up before we can have an honest conversation.
Yes, these ignorant children may take over some day and write the history. Among making messes they should have to clean up, they are inverting the English language. Those who work to destroy use that tactic as a tool to great effect. Apparently you don't understand the word genocide and are easily swayed by its misuse. A school should be where people learn. Children are easily manipulated and without humility, revel in their ignorance.
And don’t those of us old enough to have received a true liberal education lament today’s doctrinal poverty? Call it a genocide of the mind - and ultimately free will.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
There is no tyrannical dictator. Nor will there be one in America. America wouldn't even accept a benevolent and paternal autocrat, so cease this nonsense.
It would help if you understood my post, but perhaps history isn’t your strong point. Although perhaps you’re beginning to understand current events. One can hope!
It is unclear Mark which side you are indicting- there is only one possible right answer here and if you attribute tyranny to the wrong side, it is you whose strong point is not history.
It’s not me who decides the “side”. It’s history that has made that decision. And sadly there are those amongst us who still do not understand, nor do they seem to accept, that history does indeed tend to repeat itself. For better or for worse.
As for my strong points? I’ll be happy to stand firm that historical facts and historical data regarding human behavior towards one another is indeed one of my strong points. Both by extensive research and, sadly enough, through personal experience.
Mark, there is something kind about you, even in your snarkier moments. Might I go further and suggest that you are a naturalist? If you are, that would explain the unbridgeable gap between our words. Still, I will tell you as a point of fact, that no, "history" has not made that decision or any other decision, History cannot decide anything. The only free will on planet earth belongs to humans, but if you are a naturalist, you will say that free will belongs to history, not to humans, and you will illustrate, yet again, the theme of my article, which is the Universities inculcate the abuse of speech, much like we see in 1984, and your very words are evidence of the theme.
People with your convictions often decry the supposed authoritarian nature of contemporary conservatives, ignoring the fact that they are weak and give into worldly pressures. They also idolize republicanism which makes them aghast to any authoritative measures. Yet you mock my knowledge on history for questionable reasons. Nice. Real nice.
First, you wouldn’t have a clue what my convictions are. Second, you seem to have an incredibly insecure view of yourself and your knowledge of history if you’re concerned about how I feel about it. And that my friend is on you. As for conservatives aghast of authoritarianism. Your fellow conservatives sure have a strange way of defending that statement walking around wearing red MAGA caps. The usual conversation with conservatives these days is their regurgitating denials minus facts while dismissing facts that contradict their own claims. I’ve had these conversations to the point of nausea due to the never ending refusal to acknowledge the truth. I’ve given ample opportunities for conservatives to defend their convictions with evidence and facts, yet nothing is ever presented to back their claims. Nothing!!. Once this MAGA pandemic passes and the Grand Old Whatever it’s called these days, finally gets rid of their toxic ideologies and decides to join the rest of civilized America, you won’t see me, or most of America, give you any credibility whatsoever.
You label those who follow Trump as a Maga cult, it gives me a general indication of what your politics are, which is anything but an unbiased or objective statement. And I never said I was in expert in history, but historically conservatism has sought to have a small and limited government with constitutional constraints or some other forms of checks and balances on elected officials. I as monarchist oppose the centralization of fascism and would prefer at least on local and regional levels to have a great level of autonomy to preserve local customs and communities, even though I am most certainly an authoritarian with a disdain for popular rule/sovereignty.
Well...and timely said! We must not submit to tactics historically used to control people around the world. They are few...we are many. Let us not let them dictate what we say, what we believe and how we live. Liberty and Justice!
Perhaps the current university student protests that the author writes about, aren’t as dire as he opines. Turns out that actively protesting the Israeli/Hamas conflict, is rather far down on the current list of concerns of today’s university students.
It's not so important to me where these actions fall on a list to university students as it is that they are intellectually tolerated by the students at all. Hatred, no matter at what level of intensity, is extremely dangerous to any society...and must be opposed openly by those who know its ultimate consequences.
If you read beyond the incidents and the numbers of brainwashed actors you will see that the much bigger problem is that all students are exposed to the indoctrination. It doesn't matter that a small percentage acts on the manipulation it matters that it is manipulation for all students and the percentage of students and severity of what they are willing to do in response to this conditioning is increasing. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
The first “ genocide “ of the 20th century was the attempt by the Ottoman Turks to destroy the Armenian minority. They were very effective in eliminating a religious ( Christian) minority in a Muslim nation. Hitler was famously quoted as saying “who after all speaks todsy of the annihilation of the Armenians?”
Let's not forget the most "successful" genocide in human history: the murder and forced removal of Native Americans by European colonists. The "Whiter" the New World nation, the more effective was the genocide. Every square inch of our own country was taken from a Native Nation. Hard to be more "effective" and "successful" than that!
American Indians did not share the same ownership of property as Europeans. There was a struggle for resources all right and like other tribes previously, the Europeans won. Disease killed 90% of natives, not colonists. Most of the rest became mixed with whites. Stephen, you do not know very much about the tribes.
Inadvertent transmission of disease is not genocide. Anymore than the European Black Plagues were "genocide". Unless you add Fauci's intentional enhanced function viral manipulations as intentional genocide, and hold him personally accountable for every iteration of that recent scourge.
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
"Owning the language" sounds a lot like Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals #13:
(Good time for us all to review all 13 of his 'rules" - election season does bring them all out again.)
13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
JL, excellent example of Alinksy's affinity with his master the Great Divider. Who in their right mind thinks this rule is a just way to treat fellow citizens? We are seeing the soft version of #13 on this thread and some who would actually defend Alinsky and a good person. Still how many words just on this thread do you think we could identify as "abused speech" or in other words "owning the language?" I bet we can find dozens. Although they are fewer, I bet there is a handful of readers and commenters who agree with Alinsky's tactics here.
I appreciate your comments Jarrell, they are not of this age as I describe in the article. The anachronistic politicization of the past allows for ideologues to call any war "genocide" as long as the aggressors are from the right ethnicity and the victims for the same reason. Using genocide to describe war is an abuse of speech. Redefining genocide for political purposes is illegitimate and in bad faith.
Claims of land tenure are equally unsupportable, as you point out. Until the introduction of the Anglo-American system of recorded land holdings, the claim someone else prior "owned the land" or it was "stolen from them" is simply misappropriating the Anglo-American system of land ownership rights. Only after its introduction did we finally bring peaceful settlement to land claim disputes. Before, it was you only "owned" what you could defend.
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
That was largely the result of protestant nations having little regard native populations. The Spanish and Portugese, while not perfect in their rule did set up protections for the natives even if it was poorly enforced, and they were neutral or even supported the concept of race mixing as a means to further spread the Catholic Faith, unlike protestants who were notably less concerned with the salvation of natives and never attempted to accommodate for the cultural beliefs of the natives. There are concepts of "Hispanidad" and "Lusotropicalism" that emphasize a shared heritage and cultural regardless of race or ethnicity.
However, Queen Isabella I of Castile forbade slavery of the native population and deemed the indigenous to be "free vassals of the crown".[6] Various versions of the Laws of the Indies from 1512 onwards attempted to regulate the interactions between the settlers and natives. Both natives and Spaniards appealed to the Real Audiencias for relief under the encomienda system.
And while I could have been clearer, I already stated that Iberian rule wasn't perfect, but there was much greater efforts from the Spanish and Portuguese empire to both in the colonies and Iberia itself to protect and safeguard indigenous populations, protestants, however, had little regard for most of the history in the America's.
Safeguard indigenous populations in Spain (Iberia)? Who were the indigenous of Iberia? Protestants had little regard for most of the history in the America's? What are you writing?!
Bro. Iberia, where Spain and Portugal where, and where these colonial empires had their home country, did more to safeguard the rights of the indigenous unlike protestants. Protestants generally cared little or evangelism unlike Catholics given the universal nature of the Church, and Catholics with the Iberian peninsula and within the colonies in Latin America did far more to earn fair treatment for the natives that protestants did for most of their history. The fact that many indigenous cultures and languages exist and are protected, in addition to some cultural practices being baptized by the Church, shows a much greater tolerance of natives in Latin America compared to other colonial territories. I don't know why you can't accept that the Catholic nations of Spain and Portugal were much better (though flawed) in their treatment of indigenous populations.
Some populations of indigenous people willingly embraced both cultural and religious practices on their own volition and willingly integrated into Spanish and Portuguese colonial territories, the same cannot be said of the indigenous populations of north America, with many being forced odd their lands and into reservations where there was little respect for their language and customs.
So where are they getting the genocide idea? Right, it’s the Palestinians committing genocide. The a democrats project their evils on others.
These protestors are too ignorant and incapable of doing a simple google search.
These American rioters apparently do not know that on Oct 7 that 35 unarmed American civilians were brutally killed by Palestinians. Women and children killed in their homes, raped in a brutal massacre.
The Palestinians, Hamas are the leaders of Palestine, support and help Hamas in their terrorists attacked and cowardly hiding under civilian areas. Just like these college idiots support the Democrat funded BLM , Antifa style vandalism and violent riots.
“ Donors include some of the biggest names in Democratic circles: Soros, Rockefeller and Pritzker”. Two of the organizers supporting the protests at Columbia University and on other campuses are Jewish Voice for Peace and IfNotNow. Both are supported by the Tides Foundation, which is seeded by Democratic megadonor George Soros and was previously supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
But college kids are too ignorant or lazy to even look at Wikipedia. Welcome to an American education.
“Palestinian support for Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza remains high, according to a Palestinian poll released on March 20. That support has increased since the Iran-backed terrorist group attacked Israel on October 7. “
correct, Soros runs the human organizations, including those that you listed (+++ both here & abroad)…the college kids are merely pawns in the bigger game…thier plan was to create another ‘Summer of Love’ similar to 2020 pre election, but they are failing (people are waking to their schemes)…
none of what is happening to Our Country is organic…we are in the middle of a Color Revolution against US by the “Old Guard” (CCP + WEF + others foreign & domestic)…they are using the same playbook that they have used to install communism in other countries over time:
Steps used to install Communism:
1. Take control of Health Care (make ppl depend on government - thanks Obama)
2. Create Poverty (make ppl dependent upon government)
3. Create Debt (higher taxes -> more poverty)
4. Gun Control (remove guns to create Police State)
5. Take full control of Personal Lives (food, housing, transportation...)
Ahh, you know the KKK folks were dems but the same states and counties are now GOP. You know that - you just like spread that misinterpretation. The south used to be all Dem - now it's all MAGA. I doubt the KKK left their province. And now you're a Biden fan?
Don't use this "the dems are the real racist" argument. Leftist don't care for it, and it shows you're typing to appeal to liberal sensitivities by saying that you're not a racist in an attempt to avoid being crucified by leftists. It just shows that one caves in to leftist rhetoric.
i would really like to know what your point is. It sounds to me like you're saying, even though its the Democrats who are the original racists, the Republicans are.
It just seems like you were saying that it is republicans that are racists but the democrats are the real racists- so explain your meaning of that first post please?
Whether you agree or not, the International Court of Justice, in response to South Africa’s petition, joined by other nations, found a plausible case supporting genocide by Israel. So that’s one defensible source for that argument and conclusion.
All war is horrifying, especially since most are banker wars for profits.
How did the US respond after 9/11 terrorists attacks on American civilians?
Yep, the American people supported an attack on civilians to get the “bad” guys.
Did America warn civilians where we will attack? Did America open routes of evacuation? Nope. Thousands of civilians in Afghanistan were killed by America. America devastated the region. So America is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Now Americans are telling Israel how to fight a decades long, centuries long war?
The day after Israel was declared a country five Arab nations attacked Israel.
Palestinians have launched thousands of rockets and mortars at Israel civilian targets since 2001. Palestine has been designated terrorists for thirty years. They have been declared war criminals throughout the years.
Do you think both Israel & Palestine are war criminals? And do you think America & NATO are “innocent”?
Oct 7 Palestinians went into Israel and killed over 1,200 unarmed civilians including women and children in their homes point blank with American supplied rifles. Then retreated to hide behind civilians. Cowards.
America funded the attack, America supplied the rifles used to kill Jews. The weapons left in Afghanistan are being used by Palestine. America gave Iran $6bilion weeks before the mass murder of Israelis.
America negotiated a cease fire without involving Israel then tells Israel we will not supply their munitions if they do not comply with America’s will.
The tunnel system under Gaza could shelter every Palestinian. Do they retreat into the safety of the tunnels, no.
Why did Egypt build a wall keeping out Palestinians?
How many Ukrainians have died in Americas war against Russia?
All soldiers?
We are pushing and continuing that war killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Ukraine and Russia tried to have leave two years ago, but America said no.
America needs to but out. But America is greedy. Not you & me, our government leaders and elites who profit from war. They need war.
If words mattered, IDF responding to a brutal attack and protestors labeling it as genocide is the wrong word. Retrieving hostages from ruthless killers and calling it genocide is also incorrect.
The protestors, et al are infuriated because innocent women and children are killed in the above reactionary attacks from Israel; the breaking of a treaty, the vicious barbarian attack of Hamas and the taking of hostages be-damned!
Furthermore, I would use the word irresponsible and label the United States that for not vehemently combining forces to rescue the American held hostage immediately. The world knows of Hamas' military tactics of pushing innocents between guns aimed at them. The vacillating state dept. is truly the Jr. varsity of the Middle East policy.
This savage aggression happened worlds away from the American campuses, yet the anger towards the Jews here is astonishing. After how many years and years of anti prejudice indoctrination in the school system and this is the result? It's like prejudice is an un-ignited bomb awaiting an activist protestors' torch. The finger must be pointed at the educators that failed "prejudice" class.
Armed Services Committee new draft guidelines now requires women to also sign up for selective service. The last quaint distinction between men and women in America now falls.
Thanks for letting me know about the leftist influence at UCSB. I had not heard of a news story about the University other than UCLA and a few back east. I agree that people who break the law have no standing to make demands.
That dog sure don't hunt no more, Mark. But thanks for trying.
We all know your tribe worked so hard to get that premature label just to exploit it election year 2024, but it has not gotten any traction. In fact, it now creates the opposite reaction. Too many now see themselves as victims of the Democrat deep state, and lawfare against Trump only validates this growing perception.
Nor will sheer repetition do anything other than scare more people away from the Democrat party - the draconian party of political punishment and massive taxpayer control. Sorry, but you did this to yourselves.
Mark, there is evil afoot. This war we are in is not R vs D. It’s liars verse the truth. And those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
We have developed false divides in our culture that pit “conservative” against “liberal” and portray just causes as something “they” do. We determine our convictions based upon a popularity contest so we are liked by the “ cool” kids not wanting to be on the wrong side. Too many people have forgotten it’s not about D vs R. It’s about people and issues that affect communities, not individuals.
Instead of using peaceful means we unfortunately see people “celebrate” mass murdering of children & women on both sides and try to say it’s ok because someone threw the first stone & that goes no where.
When will people grow up, mature? Where are the adults? Where are the morals?
Our current leaders are absent of these. Vote differently.
The Democrat party agenda is no longer normative. That has been the biggest recent political shift. Democrat policies are now aberrational, nor can they be defended.
lol, you must be an independent then. Because if you subscribe to the philosophy of the Grand Old Party of recent and their agenda of cultish political hypocrisy, not to mention their political extremism. Then my friend, you reap what you sow. Perhaps you would care to reexamine your research sources. But I will give you credit for articulating your nonsense.
There's nothing extreme about the Republican party. It's dishonest of you to even consider them as such. And extreme is a relativistic term, extreme to whom? Godless individuals?
Growing numbers are now actually nostalgic for the good old MAGA days. Now that we have seen what the other side has offered these past four years.
This forced interregnum has been good for conservative forces. Mainly time for the rise and reach of alternative media resources, which give lie to the prior disinformation campaign exercised by the former "corporate" media - the Democrat party mocking bird media.
It was a sobering moment at the last WEF gathering in Davos when they had to admit they no longer controlled the media.
Glad to know you dont approve of a convicted felon running for president. No one approves of a convicted felon running for president, and as far as half the country knows, there isn't one.
what are you even talking about? The 90million people who support Trump are not cultists and are not delusional. It is actually the ideological Left that is cult-like.
You define exactly what I’m talking about!!. Not surprising a delusional Trumptard would try to defend a delusional cult of Trumptards who cult worship a delusional sociopathic convicted felon. And predictably your math skills are lacking as well, but you’re not alone. All your delusional right wing traitorous Capital Stormtroopers couldn’t count past 10 either.
Project much… your trump derangement syndrome has you frothing at the mouth, lashing out on an otherwise friendly and civilized discussion board. Give it a rest and get out of your basement
Steven, thanks for writing a piece that generated so much interest and the value of SBCurrent as a forum of exchange.
While my goal was not to comment on anybody's else expression of their opinion, I have to share the humor I found in someone writing that a billionaire; with productive, supportive children; a loving, beautiful wife; living on two of his multiple golf courses; who created a name that he can market as representing quality; and is capable of independently walking and talking; who would pursue a stressful, $400,000/year job, doesn't do anything that does not benefit himself.
Hello Brent, we just had a lovely dinner with a mutual friend!
To your point: The liberal art of Logic is dead and gone in the modern school. The literati cares not a wit for coherence but for effect. This has become a deeply rooted problem in our society that will be very difficult to eradicate.
Coordinated violence, destruction, intimidation and bullying are not hallmarks of a healthy democracy. How dare Democrats say anyone other than themselves are "threats to our democracy".
Epoch Times California section this week has an excellent expose of what UAW unions have now done on all UC - tax dollar supported - campuses.
Tax revolt, people. Put this highly effective tool on your radar. We did it with Prop 13 and we shall do it again. We do not pay people to destroy us from within. As Victor Davis Hanson cynically observed recently, if you paid the current socialist UC system faculty enough they would all become fascists too, with just as much ease.
Peaceful protestors were acting in self-defense after being attacked by the Capitol Police on Jan 6. The ongoing requests by authorized representatives for review of a state's electoral vote certification were perfectly legal. There was nothing to fear - yet the Capitol Police decided to open fire on the milling crowds which had gathered in support of that legal process. We still don't know what other forces were there to exploit this event.
The only thing we learned is conservatives run towards the action when people are being attacks in order to protect others; and do not run away. as perhaps the Capitol Police intended to have happen.
But why was Ray Epps demanding everyone "go into the Capitol" during those very same events when no one on the Trump side owns up to this remaining mysterious person? Too bad there was never an honest analysis of those very few hours of an unfortunate melee, and high scrutiny of the hundreds of hours of multiple angle camera tapes.
So why have so many of your 'tourists' been convited from events from Jan 6? Something over 700 have been convicted of committing federal crimes. How do you explain that? Did they all have Merchan as their judge?
Many rally protestors were convicted of entering what was called "prohibited space" - the Capitol Grounds and Buildings, even after doors were opened and they were invited in. It is all looking very bad for Democrats -if this is what they use to gin up their MAGA crime spree. Expect whole sale pardons for these continuing Democrat lawfare injustices.
Thomas John, I always appreciate your questions because they ask us to go deeper into understanding- you starting point is another matter- but allow me to ask you a question, what was happened on Jan 6 at the capital an insurrection?
Thank you. My opinion - I wasn't there - was there were various groups there for various reasons. And things got out of hand. Most of the folks where probably just supporters of the outgoing President Trump that headed over after the rally. But then there were orchestrated groups - acting in paramilitary fashion. It's been a while - was it the oath keepers that had their hand on the guy in front shoulder and moved though the crowd alike a snake on a mission? Both Sen. Graham and house member McCarthy were calling Trump to do something to restore order and protect the capitol. Part of it seemed sideshow - part seemed much darker and planned. I'm not an expert at police training either - but like many police departments (Uvalde TX, etc.) it seems like when problems become several orders of magnitued more complicated than they are use to (and maybe have or have not been trained) things can go sideways fast. It's always easy to figure out what the majority of the rioters did wrong - and the police - when looking back at the situation. I'm just wondering how much permeditation the groups like the oathkeepers or proudboys had - this is the part that doesn't sit well with me the most.
Thank you for your honest reply, but you didn't specifically say that it was or wasn't an "insurrection." Do you have a firm opinion on that? I will tell you that it was not an insurrection and I think a good deal of your answer explains partially why it was not.
To believe that the ends justify the means, or that "any means necessary" is acceptable for one's conduct is a hallmark of deviant revolutionaries. The French Republicans murdered innocent people with the reign of terror, putting upt to 170,000 to the sword. In Mexico the revolutionary government under Plutarco Elias Calles persecuted the Church and believers leading up to the Cristero war by seizing land and other assets, in addition to preventing public displays or acts of worship. (Liberal beliefs motivated by secular ideologies have also ade religion a private matter where it was previously a public one). No need to mention the bolsheviks and their crimes, we all know what happened to Eastern Europe thanks to their regime.
The author reveals his myopia and affliction with McCarthyism by bundling the murderous and deeply malevolent Stalin and Goebbels, who were far worse than mere “scoundrels”, with community organizer Saul Alinsky, who for decades including the present has inspired many progressive politicians and others trying to make this country and the world a better place for those not blessed with inheritance and privilege. https://www.vox.com/2014/10/6/6829675/saul-alinsky-explain-obama-hillary-clinton-rodham-organizing
WOW Ira Gottlieb! I agree they are much worse than scoundrels, but Alinsky dedicated Rules for Radicals to Lucifer. It would seem myopia and McCarthyism better describe someone else.
Who was Trump's ghostwriter for 'art of the deal? Oh yeah, Tony Schwartz, the guy that now regrets having anything to do with Trump. He’s donated several hundred thousand dollars from the book’s proceeds to causes he believes the former president would hate
Circular. There’s nothing wrong, much less devilish, about organizing people to pursue their own betterment, even if it means less profit or discretion or freedom to pollute or realization of greedy impulses by and for the powerful. Regrets if you find that satanic.
Circular? I have no doubt that those who think Alinsky was a good guy are sincere, but I will suggest that a good end does not justify illicit means. One's "betterment" is a highly questionable term if we are asking Saul what it means to be "better." I am a little worried Ira that you may share definitions with Alinsky. Still, look at what JL posted about Rule #13 and tell me if you agree with Alinsky or do you recognize that as vicious and dividing?
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Sound like any Republicans you know? Not my favorite tactic, but there are times and circumstances where this makes sense. And this country uses it, and when a person embodies evil, it is appropriate. Do you know the story of Wendy McCaw, owner of the SB News-Press? Or Frank Lorenzo of Continental Airlines? Joe McCarthy? Stalin? Hitler? Republicans have used this tactic against President Obama; Trump did it before he was president. He more than many deserve to be the target. It certainly doesn’t make one satanic.
I think Snopes is making a distinction without a difference- what Alynsky wrote about Lucifer as the original radical and the rest of it is very affirming. And have you read that dreadful book, I have and it is terrible and for sure inspired by satan.
Why is the Left so envious and waste their time complaining about what others have, instead making their own American dream work for themselves? America's exceptionalism has always been its high degree of fluid social mobility -one of the reasons so many still do want to come to America.
Only 17% inherited wealth is chump change. But it is also a primary source of major public philanthropy. Yet the Left wants to confiscate it all. Expect push back. Let those with inherited means protect that wealth from the documented waste, fraud and abuse when it falls into government hands.
Currently, upward mobility in this country is largely a myth. The left sees unfairness and responds. Which doesn’t mean it doesn’t also try to elevate people; why does the right take such a jaundiced and fictionalized view of the left?
And, why does the right try so hard to deny people voting rights, and the ability to organize into a union? That avenue used to be a ticket to the middle class, but has been made more difficult and risky at the behest of Reagan.
Ira, Upward mobility covers the 83% who earned their wealth by other than inheritance. But 100% will never reach those same heights. Is that what you resent? 100% have the opportunity in this country. The choices are theirs. Some choose this route. Most do not.
Yet now just working for the government thrusts those with ordinary skills easily into the stratosphere of millionaires, living only off interest earned with guaranteed checks coming in monthly regardless of market forces. .
Are you instead demanding some sort of more wholesale "wealth redistribution"? Burdens do come with the lives of the "very rich", that many wold probably not choose for themselves.
Yet government employees now retire as de facto millionaires, without any fiscal worries at all.. Is America great or what?
Your destain for government employees and unions might color your thought process. Step back you might learn something in your search.... They chose a safe bet and are getting moderate rewards.
What does it mean to “believe in merit”? I think if it’s fairly applied, it can be a valid measure for compensation and advancement. But I don’t think capitalism is very good at determining it.
The Church has done more for the poor and marginalized than secular individuals lacking in morals, progressive also notably have little regard for charity and oppose the poorer classes if they happen to have religious beliefs.
Another sweeping and wildly inaccurate statement; it’s nonsense to suggest those who are “secular” — whatever you mean by that— lack morals. It seems that the author of the main article and you fear organization for collective power, to aid people to aid themselves. “The church” certainly has engaged in charity, and some religious officials have supported Alinsky-inspired organizing; there is not a conflict between the two. And your statement that progressives “have little regard for charity” is completely false and baseless. There are countless charities and support organizations funded by progressives, such as Bet Tzedek, Liberty Hill, Los Angeles Alliance for the New Economy, other legal aid organizations like California Rural Legal Assistance and far too many others to count. And then there’s the former president who, when he’s not committing fraud, or stealing classified documents, steals money from charities.
It's not that the secular humanists don't have "morals" it is that their morals are not tethered to the objective standards of good and justice, so they are ever morphing, declining, decaying and descending into malevolence in general. Secular humanists of 100 years ago were better people than secular humanists of today.
The true Church and Alinsky are as diametrically opposed as we can be- the Church rightfully condemns the evil of communism and socialism and the very collective groups that have been responsible for unprecedented murder, oppression and poverty.
I am pretty sure you don't know what the word "charity" means. This is the point of the article, that the abuse of speech has become normalized in our society so much so that one can say the diametric opposite of the truth as truth claims.
We disagree, and I don’t appreciate or respect your arrogance or necessarily distorted and ahistorical perspective. For one thing, you won’t seem to get the distinction between Stalin and Goebbels on the one hand, and Alinsky on the other. Nor do you account for the notion that collectivism can be a mechanism for good or evil, just as capitalism can be and has been. Instead you categorically (and ahistorically) assign evil to one and goodness to the other. Similarly with “secular humanism”: Have you forgotten the vast harms, hatred, abuses, corruption, and massacres committed in the name of religion? The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, pogroms, missionary depredations against native peoples, justifications of slavery and indentured servitude, child abuse? The perpetrators were not secular humanists, and I have barely scratched the surface.
Self-righteous indignation is a poor substitute for erudition.
My degree from UCSB is in history, so if I am ahistorical and my diploma is the cause that you might agree with my indictment of UCSB as an anti-intellectual organization.
In reality what you express is historicism.
I don't have a way to tell you this, but collectivism is an evil even if it appears as if it yields "good results." I never said capitalism was good, although properly understood it can be very good at times. Still, material communism and socialism are evil, full stop. Saul Alinsky, Stalin and Goebbels all have in common that they serve Satan. They are distinct individuals but all belong to the same evil party. I can't fathom what real distinction you want to make.
Your tropes about religion are simply propaganda, but weak and lazy. Communism, socialism, and collectivism has murdered innocents in unprecedented numbers. People are fallen and every group murders and commits sin- All humans are religious- but Christians murder when they go against the Faith, Communists murder when they go with their faith- If we take the high numbers (I believe they are not true) given by the most honest secular humanist historians on the number murdered in 300 years of the Spanish Inquisition and compare it to the numbers of people Stalin murdered over 20 years the ratio of comparative survival is 1 death in Spanish inquisition compared to 9,999 in the Stalinist Rule. Stalin and Alinsky are two peas in a pod.
You truly haven't scratched the surface, you have been led by pathological propaganda to repeat falsehoods, by which you are no doubt convicted.
Arrogance and conclusory propaganda is no substitute for a fact-based argument. You don’t justify your equation between Alinsky and Stalin because you can’t. Nor do you persuade anyone who isn’t already tethered to your bigoted retro point of view by saying the three “serve Satan”. Indeed, you expose the weakness of your argument by defaulting to that trope. I’m sure you’ll want the last word and you’re welcome to it.
Ira, those cited acts were not "committed in the name of religion". You are only now associating them as such. Why does "religion" make you uncomfortable - everyone has a spiritual side. Thank goodness.
The Church wasn't carrying out executions during any inquisition, that was carried out by secular states to punish those who were considered to be a destabilizing force. The Church was concerned with doctronal purity and repentance for anyone found guilty. The crusades were also a series of defensive wars that sought to reclaim territory from the Byzantine Empire and also liberate previously Christian lands in North Africa and the Middle East which Muslim armies conquered and put many to the sword. You should learn your history and not simply secular interpretations of it.
Child abuse is happening in every institution where humans are to be found, and if EVERY person followed Catholic teachings absolutely, child abuse wouldn't be a thing.
Then there is the current president who recklessly stores classified documents all over the place, cuts deals using his political power to get rich, used to hang with KKK friends, has messed up the economy, foreign relations and everything he has touched.
Another Kool-Aid imbiber. I say that because you’re spouting nonsense and fiction. The economy has been vastly improved since Trump lost — or do you not believe he lost? — he promptly rectified his document misplacement, the operative word on KKK association is “used to”, while Trump and his party are racists at this moment, and he is not enriching himself as Trump has, even though he didn’t take his presidential salary.
Secular people with liberal/revolutionary ideologies don't seem to believe in objective morality, rather whatever they think is good is somehow okay, even if it means trampling on the lives and rights of others. Historically, "progressives" have often engaged in massacres and other acts of violence to achieve their means, even directed towards innocent people.
I'm not opposed to "collective power" at all. I'm a Catholic Monarchist, a Carlist, and I very much support individuals organizing with each other to promote the dignity of man. I support communal living, and I oppose hyper individualism so often presents I abhorrent capitalism and free and liberal markets and fully support the rights of workers to organize and campaign for fair wages. I'm not just some contemporary conservative or republican.
All socialists are not created equal; nor do they all behave alike. Where does Bernie Sanders fit in? And frankly I wouldn’t rely on a right-winger’s definition or label ing of a socialist, because they will tell you everyone from the Clintons to Fabians to Eugene Debs to Obama to FDR to the Green Bay Packers to every union leader on the planet to everyone who believes in any government-funded program is a socialist.
Trump is a fascist. Is he the same as Mussolini or Hitler or Father Coughlin?
All socialists want to make a heaven on earth or make the world "a better place" by the power of centralized government. The democrats are the real fascists. Again, have you read Alinsky's book? He is a communist and luciferian, I can't believe anyone would endorse such a horrible person. Bernie is not too different. But I am not a right winger.
Democrats aren't fascists. Fascist support corporatism as an alternative to capitalism and belive that the economy should be run under different corporations that each serve a particular industry. The only real similarities between fascists and the democrat party is there appeal to enlightenment and revolutionary ideals which are secular in nature.
There are so many protests movements that you would support now as just, but back then you would be ringing the same bell. How dare the activists make us uncomfortable.
Here is the IDF admitting they bombed a Palestinian refugee camp:
Because you would whitewash exactly how terrible it was before. Your argument is the same as saying "black people learned skills under slavery". You leave out all the horrorshow of the racism because it suits you.
You spend a lot of time reading other people's minds, Justin. I spent a lot of time in South Africa both before and after apartheid. Traveled from Cape to Cairo looking for first hand observations myself, because outside impressions, did not match what was on the ground - Cry, the beloved country. (PS: I know you will have fun with that statement in your currently rigid world view.)
Don't be so quick to judge if it isn't this, it is therefore that. Tolerate the gray areas of life; not your current black and white cartoon versions which were instilled by someone else since you have not yet accumulated much real life experience.
Also the idea of outside agitators or organization has been disproven over and over again. Are you that threatened that college students could organize a protest against genocide and the support thereof?
Of course there are outside agitators. Often still wearing purple tee-shirts. College campuses today are now caught in the public sector union turf wars. Take your blinders off, Justin.
I don't need to to dig. It's already been shown. Why can't you accept students don't like seeing dead children and would choose to try and do something about it?
One can oppose Israel's actions and even it's existence as a state, many Catholics like myself already do. Yet we don't feel the need to engage in this behavior.
I am reminded of the quote often attribute to Eleanor Roosevelt (probably not hers) “Well-behaved women rarely make history." Silent disagreement rarely begets change.
Why would anyone be "well-behaved" today? Can you imagine that you use that as an insult, a well-cultivated virtuous human being will not make history, therefore, misbehave so you can make change and history- wow!
These individuals would likely support the French revolution, that alone gives me no sympathy for them. Those who belive in "change at any cost" are immoral individuals and should not be taken seriously.
How much reality do you have to ignore to think this topic is really about killing children and babies? This tragedy doesn't end because we say such things and is only the rotten fruit mistaken for root cause.
Where is there condemnation of abortion? I oppose Israel's actions of displacing native Palestinians, and of their attacks which have led to deaths of thousands of dead men and women, and most unfortunate children. I also oppose abortion yet I don't see these people marching alongside the March for Life movement, or praying outside abortion facilities and encouraging young pope and couples to choose life.
Dear Steven, In your column you write "'Say Genocide' and its adherents are illegitimate. They have no right to force anyone to say anything that is not true. " This raises several questions. Do the student protestors have the right to force it to be said if it is true? Do they actually have the means to "force" anything? Did people like Bill Ackman manage to "force" out the presidents of Harvard and UPenn and pressure others at places like Columbia, UCLA, MIT and even here at UCSB into using overwhelming state power from the barrel of a gun to force the protestors to desist? Who had the power to get the presidents of several universities hauled before congress? And perhaps more to the point, is it actually not true that Israel's bombing of schools, hospitals and entire residential areas, the more than a decade old control of all borders to Gaza and now the tight restriction of even food aid, water and power in the Gaza strip is engineering famine in order to make life unlivable in the Gaza Strip? Are Palestinians in the West Bank not facing increased repression and killings and continuation of the long standing brutal occupation they continue to live under, despite no appreciable Hamas presence, to in fact also make life unlivable for those non-Jews in the land Israel covets in the West Bank? Do these crimes, when looked at in their totality, not meet the UN legal definition of genocide? Is a state for Jews only founded and maintained with terror, massacres, torture, imprisonments and occupation morally tenable? Was it ever possible to carry out the Zionist project without genocide? Jabotinsky didn't seem to think so in his famous essay "The Iron Wall" written in 1923. Those early Zionist terrorists in gangs that were the precurrors to the IDF that were generating the village files and carrying out Plan Dalet, including massacres such as in Deir Yassin and Tantura, didn't seem to think so. Is the Zionist project as it has turned out consistent with Christian moral values? If not, why are we compelled to have both major US parties remain subservient to the interests of Israel, passing unconstitutional "hate" speech laws to silence criticism of Israel, protecting Israel from restraint in the UN, funding Israel to the tune of billions of dollars per year, waging military operations that run into the trillions of dollars for Israel in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Sudan and undermining peace seeking with Iran? How does your above statement change if it is in fact true that Israel is committing genocide with support of US institutions like UCSB as the protestors claim? Is it "anti-Semitic" to quote the Gospels about the people who killed Christ? Speaking of imposing definitions on words, who defines "anti-Semitism" and how does the definition keep expanding? Is it anti-Semitic to be Christian if the ADL's Jonathan Greenblatt says it is? Who is actually being forced with the power that comes from the barrel of a gun, state power? And why do you ignore the moral failing, abuse of language and truth, and corrosion of the moral values of our civilization on the other, much more powerful side of the activism on this issue of what is clearly Israel's war on the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine, Christians among them? Thank you for considering.
I've seen several of your comments on this article and another one, and you are all over the place. Like mommy dearest or like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide you insult and you complement with the same measure of nonsense in your subjective one sided narrative.
I think I have read that the UCSB ingrates commandeered the cafeteria and gave away all the food.
I would be arrested and charged. We have decided only certain portions of society should be held accountable. Our law enforcement establishments have let us slip into anarchy.
Abortion is genocide Say genocide
The people of "Say Genocide" use a different word for the genocide of abortion, they call it "healthcare"- seriously they are like a reverse barometer.
Please mommy, can I have a live birth. It is healthier for me.
Maybe the US & Israel should stop aborting the lives of Palestinians.
Thousands of pregnant women have been killed. You CANNOT say you’re pro life if you think this isn’t a genocide.
Have you ever heard of the liberal art of logic? A tragic casualty of war is not the same thing as "abortion." Also, you can indeed say you are pro-life and recognize that this is not a genocide, there is no real relationship between the two concepts. You need to get on the right side of reality as opposed to pathological or empathic ideology.
It isn't genocide. It is a rough neighborhood, and its residents better learn to play nicer.
Excellent use of understatement here J!
Yesterday at Mass, the priest reminded us how Catholic teaching values all life from conception to natural death. The focus in his homily was on why assisted suicide is evil, but recognizing the sanctity of life includes recognizing the sacred in the unborn, the prisoner, the infirm, the disabled, the weak and yes, even the Palestinian. Many of the student protesters for Palestinian human rights will be caught up in movements that fall short on one or another of these areas, but that does not make them incorrect to notice the sacredness of Palestinian human beings made in the likeness and image of God, our Christian brothers and sisters who are steadfast in their witness for Christ in the Holy Land among them. Many who call themselves conservative in US politics in the US will fall short on others of these, such as the right to life of the prisoner and the duty to avoid unjust war. Rather than picking a political camp and going with their platform, we who follow Christ are called to stand up for what is morally right and against what is morally wrong, regardless of the crowd or the fad or your personal distaste for whomever else is standing up for what is morally right. We are called to be as harmless as doves and as wise as serpents. It is not enough to outsource our discernment of right and wrong to our political camp. We actually need to do our own research and discernment and do what is right, even when it is hard.
War is hell and if you engage in it, not to win, you lose. Churchill and FDR adopted the approach of Unconditional Surrender and led us in a total war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Millions of innocent civilian lives were lost in this war, but it eventuated in 75 years of peace and prosperity for these countries. What is going on in Gaza (and Ukraine for that matter) is a huge human tragedy. Israel is pursuing a similar unconditional surrender approach. Is Hamas as evil as the Nazis? And if Israel does prevail and Hamas is wiped out, will peace and prosperity come to Israel and Palestine? It is a different world and different times, but Israel lives in the shadow of the Holocaust and its legacy is manifesting itself in this current Gaza War.
Prosperity will not come to Palestine and Israel will continue to displace the native populace regardless of whether or not Hamas is in power. Ethnic cleansing doesn't require a single shot to be fired, it merely necessitates the displacement of people from their homeland.
Yeah, all these pro lifers disrespecting those standing up against the genocide of Palestine are the definition of hypocrites. Unbelievable
Is that a real picture of you S? You have the reasoning skills of a small child, so if that is your picture, you are amazing.
The problem Ms. Smith is that you imply that people are saying things they are not saying. Like the way “black lives matter” implies that people don’t care about black lives is a false accusation. You are basically virtue signaling when you do the same thing like saying “even Palestinian” lives matter- no one here on the Current thinks Palestinians should be murdered, no one! No one said such a terrible thing. And then you ascribe a false nobility to the protestors, excusing their murderous stance towards the most innocent and sainting them for their care for innocent Palestinians, very disingenuous. Then you imply that all lives are worthy of equal treatment. The prisoner is not the same as the unborn child. The Hamas terrorist is not the same as an innocent Palestinian child. And then you make an absurd sweeping statement about conservatives falling short on murder and just war and it is obvious you don’t know the first thing about what “many” conservatives think. And then super ironically, you say people pick a political platform and just go with it unthinkingly, but not you... You should check your superiority complex and recognize your contradictions, you don’t really know what you are talking about. The only people who “outsource” their morality to a platform is people like you, but you are too blind to see it! We don’t need to do our own research, that is the very radical individualism that is the problem, we need to follow Christ’s commands. Shame on you for these fake self-righteous words, you are working for evil and don’t even seem like you know it.
I smell manipulation…you use the gospel and Christ’s words but your pro-Palestinian bent and disdain for Isreal lingers in the air.
I am Catholic so I know that we who follow Christ are and have been for millennia, the New Israel according to Him. The Good News about Christ is He came to preach about a heavenly kingdom, He was not a conqueror. If you fell for the psyop Scofield Reference Bible Con that says Christians should support violating every commandment to support a new state that would persecute Christians in the Holy Land as long as you call it "Israel", then you are going to have to bravely face the deception to free yourself from the Zionism scam. There is no manipulation on my part. Our duty if we are Christian is to follow Christ's teachings, not what helps us fit in or avoid persecution by those who are of this world. It is my belief that the best way to do that properly is with the support and wisdom in the magisterium of The Catholic Church founded by Christ, not a Church that has taken the bible to interpret on their own. Beware of anyone calling himself a Christian leader who has not seen through this oxymoronic "Christian Zionism" scam. That is the blind leading the blind. Yes, I do have disdain for the entire scam of Zionism because it is a satanic murderous fraud that is not only terrible for all the people touched by it in the Holy Land, it is also engulfing our own country in corruption and blood lust. A society that thinks it can flourish while ignoring the moral law is deluding itself. John Adams noted that our system of government is unsuitable absent a moral people. So we have a duty to our country as well to face this very important moral questions of our day and get it right.
no one is denying the Zionist scam, but you are so one-sided... and apparently blind to it.
Because Israel defines evil. Can’t be a Christian and support it.
These children need consequences imposed upon them. Expulsion would be just the beginning.
Making choices and accepting consequences is the most noble motivation of all.
these kids are a menace on our campus, and they make us ALL look bad.
These kids are correctly pointing out that there is a genocide. Let’s hope they stop attending UCSB, which is complicit.
You are abusing speech to claim that the tragic atrocity is a genocide, you have to ignore too much of reality to conclude that.
Consequences for pointing out there is a genocide happening?
Nuts. They’re on the right side of history. Wake up.
S.2- it is hard to return comments to your ideological stance- to call the tragedy in Palestine is an abuse of speech you clearly don't understand. To be "on the right side of history" is of no interest to me, but to be on the right side of morality is. I am pro-life, what you are calling "abortion" because "pregnant women are causalities of war" is another abuse of speech. If I think Israel has a right to defend itself, that is not carte blanch support of all of Israel's terrible ideas or political positions. You need to wake up before we can have an honest conversation.
Yes, these ignorant children may take over some day and write the history. Among making messes they should have to clean up, they are inverting the English language. Those who work to destroy use that tactic as a tool to great effect. Apparently you don't understand the word genocide and are easily swayed by its misuse. A school should be where people learn. Children are easily manipulated and without humility, revel in their ignorance.
Oh, and hiding behind a moniker just shows you are a coward.
And don’t those of us old enough to have received a true liberal education lament today’s doctrinal poverty? Call it a genocide of the mind - and ultimately free will.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Then they came for freedom of choice, equal rights, freedom from religious and political prosecution, and not enough spoke out—
Because a tyrannical authoritarian dictator wouldn’t allow it.
And then the world began to deny it would ever happen again.
There is no tyrannical dictator. Nor will there be one in America. America wouldn't even accept a benevolent and paternal autocrat, so cease this nonsense.
It would help if you understood my post, but perhaps history isn’t your strong point. Although perhaps you’re beginning to understand current events. One can hope!
It is unclear Mark which side you are indicting- there is only one possible right answer here and if you attribute tyranny to the wrong side, it is you whose strong point is not history.
It’s not me who decides the “side”. It’s history that has made that decision. And sadly there are those amongst us who still do not understand, nor do they seem to accept, that history does indeed tend to repeat itself. For better or for worse.
As for my strong points? I’ll be happy to stand firm that historical facts and historical data regarding human behavior towards one another is indeed one of my strong points. Both by extensive research and, sadly enough, through personal experience.
Mark, there is something kind about you, even in your snarkier moments. Might I go further and suggest that you are a naturalist? If you are, that would explain the unbridgeable gap between our words. Still, I will tell you as a point of fact, that no, "history" has not made that decision or any other decision, History cannot decide anything. The only free will on planet earth belongs to humans, but if you are a naturalist, you will say that free will belongs to history, not to humans, and you will illustrate, yet again, the theme of my article, which is the Universities inculcate the abuse of speech, much like we see in 1984, and your very words are evidence of the theme.
People with your convictions often decry the supposed authoritarian nature of contemporary conservatives, ignoring the fact that they are weak and give into worldly pressures. They also idolize republicanism which makes them aghast to any authoritative measures. Yet you mock my knowledge on history for questionable reasons. Nice. Real nice.
First, you wouldn’t have a clue what my convictions are. Second, you seem to have an incredibly insecure view of yourself and your knowledge of history if you’re concerned about how I feel about it. And that my friend is on you. As for conservatives aghast of authoritarianism. Your fellow conservatives sure have a strange way of defending that statement walking around wearing red MAGA caps. The usual conversation with conservatives these days is their regurgitating denials minus facts while dismissing facts that contradict their own claims. I’ve had these conversations to the point of nausea due to the never ending refusal to acknowledge the truth. I’ve given ample opportunities for conservatives to defend their convictions with evidence and facts, yet nothing is ever presented to back their claims. Nothing!!. Once this MAGA pandemic passes and the Grand Old Whatever it’s called these days, finally gets rid of their toxic ideologies and decides to join the rest of civilized America, you won’t see me, or most of America, give you any credibility whatsoever.
Mark, this is terrifying!
You label those who follow Trump as a Maga cult, it gives me a general indication of what your politics are, which is anything but an unbiased or objective statement. And I never said I was in expert in history, but historically conservatism has sought to have a small and limited government with constitutional constraints or some other forms of checks and balances on elected officials. I as monarchist oppose the centralization of fascism and would prefer at least on local and regional levels to have a great level of autonomy to preserve local customs and communities, even though I am most certainly an authoritarian with a disdain for popular rule/sovereignty.
Mr. Allen,
i'm pretty sure that word "authoritarian dictator" does not mean what you think it means.
Well...and timely said! We must not submit to tactics historically used to control people around the world. They are few...we are many. Let us not let them dictate what we say, what we believe and how we live. Liberty and Justice!
Perhaps the current university student protests that the author writes about, aren’t as dire as he opines. Turns out that actively protesting the Israeli/Hamas conflict, is rather far down on the current list of concerns of today’s university students.
https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/poll-stu
dents-israel-hamas-protests
It's not so important to me where these actions fall on a list to university students as it is that they are intellectually tolerated by the students at all. Hatred, no matter at what level of intensity, is extremely dangerous to any society...and must be opposed openly by those who know its ultimate consequences.
If you read beyond the incidents and the numbers of brainwashed actors you will see that the much bigger problem is that all students are exposed to the indoctrination. It doesn't matter that a small percentage acts on the manipulation it matters that it is manipulation for all students and the percentage of students and severity of what they are willing to do in response to this conditioning is increasing. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
It's beyond me, why would anyone want their kids to attend UCSB or any other university campus these days?
They go in as children and they come out as family hating political activists. Crazy!
The first “ genocide “ of the 20th century was the attempt by the Ottoman Turks to destroy the Armenian minority. They were very effective in eliminating a religious ( Christian) minority in a Muslim nation. Hitler was famously quoted as saying “who after all speaks todsy of the annihilation of the Armenians?”
Let's not forget the most "successful" genocide in human history: the murder and forced removal of Native Americans by European colonists. The "Whiter" the New World nation, the more effective was the genocide. Every square inch of our own country was taken from a Native Nation. Hard to be more "effective" and "successful" than that!
American Indians did not share the same ownership of property as Europeans. There was a struggle for resources all right and like other tribes previously, the Europeans won. Disease killed 90% of natives, not colonists. Most of the rest became mixed with whites. Stephen, you do not know very much about the tribes.
Inadvertent transmission of disease is not genocide. Anymore than the European Black Plagues were "genocide". Unless you add Fauci's intentional enhanced function viral manipulations as intentional genocide, and hold him personally accountable for every iteration of that recent scourge.
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
"Owning the language" sounds a lot like Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals #13:
(Good time for us all to review all 13 of his 'rules" - election season does bring them all out again.)
13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
JL, excellent example of Alinksy's affinity with his master the Great Divider. Who in their right mind thinks this rule is a just way to treat fellow citizens? We are seeing the soft version of #13 on this thread and some who would actually defend Alinsky and a good person. Still how many words just on this thread do you think we could identify as "abused speech" or in other words "owning the language?" I bet we can find dozens. Although they are fewer, I bet there is a handful of readers and commenters who agree with Alinsky's tactics here.
Livingston
Rule 13 sounds like Trump’s mantra.
Nancy, Rule 13 is a Rule for Radicals, it is exactly what the democrats do, it is seriously your play book. Be fair.
I appreciate your comments Jarrell, they are not of this age as I describe in the article. The anachronistic politicization of the past allows for ideologues to call any war "genocide" as long as the aggressors are from the right ethnicity and the victims for the same reason. Using genocide to describe war is an abuse of speech. Redefining genocide for political purposes is illegitimate and in bad faith.
My point exactly!
Claims of land tenure are equally unsupportable, as you point out. Until the introduction of the Anglo-American system of recorded land holdings, the claim someone else prior "owned the land" or it was "stolen from them" is simply misappropriating the Anglo-American system of land ownership rights. Only after its introduction did we finally bring peaceful settlement to land claim disputes. Before, it was you only "owned" what you could defend.
And native tribes were so kind and charitable to each other:/
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
Thanks to Adolph Hitler, what used to be considered war is now by many called Genocide. The European/ native American conflict commencing in the 17th Century in North America and culminating in the post Civil War Indian Wars in the West, now has become genocide. Eventually 30 million people migrated from Europe and encountered around 5 million Native Americans. There were violent acts on both sides that today could be defined as genocide. Sometimes Indians fought side by side with the Europeans against Indians. Indians engaged in internecine wars with one another, and the losers sometimes banded together with the white man to regain land they lost to other Indians. The Crows are an example of this. Americans before and after the Civil War had a high regard for Indians as warriors. After the war was over in the 1890s and the young US was the clear winner, the government and American society began a protracted ongoing legal and cultural process of acknowledging Indian rights and heritage. Today Indians are still here, as they like to say, and I honor them not as genocidal victims, but as fellow contributors to the American experience.
You cannot rely on the 1619 Project for your historical POV. You're historically illiterate. Thats just not what happened lol.
That was largely the result of protestant nations having little regard native populations. The Spanish and Portugese, while not perfect in their rule did set up protections for the natives even if it was poorly enforced, and they were neutral or even supported the concept of race mixing as a means to further spread the Catholic Faith, unlike protestants who were notably less concerned with the salvation of natives and never attempted to accommodate for the cultural beliefs of the natives. There are concepts of "Hispanidad" and "Lusotropicalism" that emphasize a shared heritage and cultural regardless of race or ethnicity.
Google the encomienda system
However, Queen Isabella I of Castile forbade slavery of the native population and deemed the indigenous to be "free vassals of the crown".[6] Various versions of the Laws of the Indies from 1512 onwards attempted to regulate the interactions between the settlers and natives. Both natives and Spaniards appealed to the Real Audiencias for relief under the encomienda system.
They applied for relief? So what? That was their law. Does your cut and paste include the result?
And while I could have been clearer, I already stated that Iberian rule wasn't perfect, but there was much greater efforts from the Spanish and Portuguese empire to both in the colonies and Iberia itself to protect and safeguard indigenous populations, protestants, however, had little regard for most of the history in the America's.
Safeguard indigenous populations in Spain (Iberia)? Who were the indigenous of Iberia? Protestants had little regard for most of the history in the America's? What are you writing?!
Bro. Iberia, where Spain and Portugal where, and where these colonial empires had their home country, did more to safeguard the rights of the indigenous unlike protestants. Protestants generally cared little or evangelism unlike Catholics given the universal nature of the Church, and Catholics with the Iberian peninsula and within the colonies in Latin America did far more to earn fair treatment for the natives that protestants did for most of their history. The fact that many indigenous cultures and languages exist and are protected, in addition to some cultural practices being baptized by the Church, shows a much greater tolerance of natives in Latin America compared to other colonial territories. I don't know why you can't accept that the Catholic nations of Spain and Portugal were much better (though flawed) in their treatment of indigenous populations.
Some populations of indigenous people willingly embraced both cultural and religious practices on their own volition and willingly integrated into Spanish and Portuguese colonial territories, the same cannot be said of the indigenous populations of north America, with many being forced odd their lands and into reservations where there was little respect for their language and customs.
Actually, it was the Herero and Nama genocide in German colonial Africa that was the first genocide of the 20th century.
President Biden just stated Israel is not committing genocide. “What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWhat's%20happening%20is%20not%20genocide,speech%20in%20the%20Rose%20Garden.
So where are they getting the genocide idea? Right, it’s the Palestinians committing genocide. The a democrats project their evils on others.
These protestors are too ignorant and incapable of doing a simple google search.
These American rioters apparently do not know that on Oct 7 that 35 unarmed American civilians were brutally killed by Palestinians. Women and children killed in their homes, raped in a brutal massacre.
The Palestinians, Hamas are the leaders of Palestine, support and help Hamas in their terrorists attacked and cowardly hiding under civilian areas. Just like these college idiots support the Democrat funded BLM , Antifa style vandalism and violent riots.
“ Donors include some of the biggest names in Democratic circles: Soros, Rockefeller and Pritzker”. Two of the organizers supporting the protests at Columbia University and on other campuses are Jewish Voice for Peace and IfNotNow. Both are supported by the Tides Foundation, which is seeded by Democratic megadonor George Soros and was previously supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135#:~:text=The%20donors%20include%20some%20of,Voice%20for%20Peace%20and%20IfNotNow.
U.N. finds 'clear and convincing' information that hostages have been raped in Gaza”. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789
Wikipedia states, “Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups have frequently violated the laws of war by firing rockets from within populated areas.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#:~:text=Hamas%20and%20other%20Palestinian%20armed,are%20illegal%20under%20international%20law.
But college kids are too ignorant or lazy to even look at Wikipedia. Welcome to an American education.
“Palestinian support for Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza remains high, according to a Palestinian poll released on March 20. That support has increased since the Iran-backed terrorist group attacked Israel on October 7. “
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/#:~:text=Palestinian%20support%20for%20Hamas%20in,attacked%20Israel%20on%20October%207.
Hamas terrorist organization launched rockets from a humanitarian area in Deir al-Balah https://www.fdd.org/analysis/op_eds/2024/03/25/hamas-launches-rockets-at-major-israeli-cities/#:~:text=The%20IDF%20said%20on%20March,after%20the%20attack%20targeted%20Ashdod%2C
Hamas has been on the terror group list for almost thirty years https://www.voanews.com/amp/explainer-how-hamas-ended-up-on-us-list-of-terrorist-groups/7478227.html
The take away here is the failure of parents to parent their children.
These young adults are vandalizing, in true nature of BLM & Antifa. All Warcraft of the Democrats stemming back from the KKK days.
Honestly parents, raise your children with some morals and teach them to do a simple google search.
correct, Soros runs the human organizations, including those that you listed (+++ both here & abroad)…the college kids are merely pawns in the bigger game…thier plan was to create another ‘Summer of Love’ similar to 2020 pre election, but they are failing (people are waking to their schemes)…
none of what is happening to Our Country is organic…we are in the middle of a Color Revolution against US by the “Old Guard” (CCP + WEF + others foreign & domestic)…they are using the same playbook that they have used to install communism in other countries over time:
Steps used to install Communism:
1. Take control of Health Care (make ppl depend on government - thanks Obama)
2. Create Poverty (make ppl dependent upon government)
3. Create Debt (higher taxes -> more poverty)
4. Gun Control (remove guns to create Police State)
5. Take full control of Personal Lives (food, housing, transportation...)
6. Take full control of Schools / Learning
7. Eliminate Religion
8. Create Class Warfare
9. Control the Media
the Silent War continues…
Good Comment. All the woke-tards on here are blinded to these realities.
Ahh, you know the KKK folks were dems but the same states and counties are now GOP. You know that - you just like spread that misinterpretation. The south used to be all Dem - now it's all MAGA. I doubt the KKK left their province. And now you're a Biden fan?
Nice Try, Thomas John. The real racists are democrats.
Don't use this "the dems are the real racist" argument. Leftist don't care for it, and it shows you're typing to appeal to liberal sensitivities by saying that you're not a racist in an attempt to avoid being crucified by leftists. It just shows that one caves in to leftist rhetoric.
I think you're missing my point. But continue your mantra.
i would really like to know what your point is. It sounds to me like you're saying, even though its the Democrats who are the original racists, the Republicans are.
Why would you really like to know?
It just seems like you were saying that it is republicans that are racists but the democrats are the real racists- so explain your meaning of that first post please?
Whether you agree or not, the International Court of Justice, in response to South Africa’s petition, joined by other nations, found a plausible case supporting genocide by Israel. So that’s one defensible source for that argument and conclusion.
All war is horrifying, especially since most are banker wars for profits.
How did the US respond after 9/11 terrorists attacks on American civilians?
Yep, the American people supported an attack on civilians to get the “bad” guys.
Did America warn civilians where we will attack? Did America open routes of evacuation? Nope. Thousands of civilians in Afghanistan were killed by America. America devastated the region. So America is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Now Americans are telling Israel how to fight a decades long, centuries long war?
The day after Israel was declared a country five Arab nations attacked Israel.
Palestinians have launched thousands of rockets and mortars at Israel civilian targets since 2001. Palestine has been designated terrorists for thirty years. They have been declared war criminals throughout the years.
Do you think both Israel & Palestine are war criminals? And do you think America & NATO are “innocent”?
Oct 7 Palestinians went into Israel and killed over 1,200 unarmed civilians including women and children in their homes point blank with American supplied rifles. Then retreated to hide behind civilians. Cowards.
America funded the attack, America supplied the rifles used to kill Jews. The weapons left in Afghanistan are being used by Palestine. America gave Iran $6bilion weeks before the mass murder of Israelis.
America negotiated a cease fire without involving Israel then tells Israel we will not supply their munitions if they do not comply with America’s will.
The tunnel system under Gaza could shelter every Palestinian. Do they retreat into the safety of the tunnels, no.
Why did Egypt build a wall keeping out Palestinians?
How many Ukrainians have died in Americas war against Russia?
All soldiers?
We are pushing and continuing that war killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Ukraine and Russia tried to have leave two years ago, but America said no.
America needs to but out. But America is greedy. Not you & me, our government leaders and elites who profit from war. They need war.
All these questions must be honestly answered Brian!!!
Good luck getting transparency from Santa Barbara or CA or the Fed.
They are not public servants despite the people placing them in office.
No! We know that the "truth is not consensus but the convergence of the mind and reality."
Nice try, are you even aware of the political situation in South Africa for the last 30 years?? rofl
Thank you for writing this piece.
If words mattered, IDF responding to a brutal attack and protestors labeling it as genocide is the wrong word. Retrieving hostages from ruthless killers and calling it genocide is also incorrect.
The protestors, et al are infuriated because innocent women and children are killed in the above reactionary attacks from Israel; the breaking of a treaty, the vicious barbarian attack of Hamas and the taking of hostages be-damned!
Furthermore, I would use the word irresponsible and label the United States that for not vehemently combining forces to rescue the American held hostage immediately. The world knows of Hamas' military tactics of pushing innocents between guns aimed at them. The vacillating state dept. is truly the Jr. varsity of the Middle East policy.
This savage aggression happened worlds away from the American campuses, yet the anger towards the Jews here is astonishing. After how many years and years of anti prejudice indoctrination in the school system and this is the result? It's like prejudice is an un-ignited bomb awaiting an activist protestors' torch. The finger must be pointed at the educators that failed "prejudice" class.
Innocent men have been killed as well, they don't matter less than women.
Armed Services Committee new draft guidelines now requires women to also sign up for selective service. The last quaint distinction between men and women in America now falls.
I don't particularly care. Either it exists for both sexes or not at all, though I would favor the latter.
Thanks for letting me know about the leftist influence at UCSB. I had not heard of a news story about the University other than UCLA and a few back east. I agree that people who break the law have no standing to make demands.
Glad to know you don’t approve of a convicted felon running for President.
That dog sure don't hunt no more, Mark. But thanks for trying.
We all know your tribe worked so hard to get that premature label just to exploit it election year 2024, but it has not gotten any traction. In fact, it now creates the opposite reaction. Too many now see themselves as victims of the Democrat deep state, and lawfare against Trump only validates this growing perception.
Nor will sheer repetition do anything other than scare more people away from the Democrat party - the draconian party of political punishment and massive taxpayer control. Sorry, but you did this to yourselves.
Once again the “victims” of the right underestimate the intelligence of normal people. Ya can’t fix stupid! but thanks for trying.
Mark, there is evil afoot. This war we are in is not R vs D. It’s liars verse the truth. And those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
We have developed false divides in our culture that pit “conservative” against “liberal” and portray just causes as something “they” do. We determine our convictions based upon a popularity contest so we are liked by the “ cool” kids not wanting to be on the wrong side. Too many people have forgotten it’s not about D vs R. It’s about people and issues that affect communities, not individuals.
Instead of using peaceful means we unfortunately see people “celebrate” mass murdering of children & women on both sides and try to say it’s ok because someone threw the first stone & that goes no where.
When will people grow up, mature? Where are the adults? Where are the morals?
Our current leaders are absent of these. Vote differently.
Innocent men are dying as well, don't ignore their deaths. They don't matter less than women.
The Democrat party agenda is no longer normative. That has been the biggest recent political shift. Democrat policies are now aberrational, nor can they be defended.
lol, you must be an independent then. Because if you subscribe to the philosophy of the Grand Old Party of recent and their agenda of cultish political hypocrisy, not to mention their political extremism. Then my friend, you reap what you sow. Perhaps you would care to reexamine your research sources. But I will give you credit for articulating your nonsense.
I shall repeat - this is what conservatism stands for today:
1. Limited government
2. Rule of law
3. Protection of private property
4. Free and competitive markets
The opposite stands in loyal opposition:
1. Big Government
2. Two systems of justice and insider lawfare
3. Confiscation of private property
4. A micromanaged nanny state
There's nothing extreme about the Republican party. It's dishonest of you to even consider them as such. And extreme is a relativistic term, extreme to whom? Godless individuals?
Mark, did you go to UCSB?
Growing numbers are now actually nostalgic for the good old MAGA days. Now that we have seen what the other side has offered these past four years.
This forced interregnum has been good for conservative forces. Mainly time for the rise and reach of alternative media resources, which give lie to the prior disinformation campaign exercised by the former "corporate" media - the Democrat party mocking bird media.
It was a sobering moment at the last WEF gathering in Davos when they had to admit they no longer controlled the media.
And Congratulations!! … you “earned” another red heart “like”. You keep it up and you just may be able to qualify for top of your class.
HAHA, now I know what your above comment points to- your strong point is not history, nor is it clear sighted thinking.
Glad to know you dont approve of a convicted felon running for president. No one approves of a convicted felon running for president, and as far as half the country knows, there isn't one.
More like 70 odd million clueless cultists DO KNOW they cult worship a convicted felon, but are so delusional it doesn't matter to them.
what are you even talking about? The 90million people who support Trump are not cultists and are not delusional. It is actually the ideological Left that is cult-like.
You define exactly what I’m talking about!!. Not surprising a delusional Trumptard would try to defend a delusional cult of Trumptards who cult worship a delusional sociopathic convicted felon. And predictably your math skills are lacking as well, but you’re not alone. All your delusional right wing traitorous Capital Stormtroopers couldn’t count past 10 either.
I don't think I am at all what you are talking about, you tell people here they are delusional but I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Project much… your trump derangement syndrome has you frothing at the mouth, lashing out on an otherwise friendly and civilized discussion board. Give it a rest and get out of your basement
Steven, thanks for writing a piece that generated so much interest and the value of SBCurrent as a forum of exchange.
While my goal was not to comment on anybody's else expression of their opinion, I have to share the humor I found in someone writing that a billionaire; with productive, supportive children; a loving, beautiful wife; living on two of his multiple golf courses; who created a name that he can market as representing quality; and is capable of independently walking and talking; who would pursue a stressful, $400,000/year job, doesn't do anything that does not benefit himself.
Hello Brent, we just had a lovely dinner with a mutual friend!
To your point: The liberal art of Logic is dead and gone in the modern school. The literati cares not a wit for coherence but for effect. This has become a deeply rooted problem in our society that will be very difficult to eradicate.
Coordinated violence, destruction, intimidation and bullying are not hallmarks of a healthy democracy. How dare Democrats say anyone other than themselves are "threats to our democracy".
Epoch Times California section this week has an excellent expose of what UAW unions have now done on all UC - tax dollar supported - campuses.
Tax revolt, people. Put this highly effective tool on your radar. We did it with Prop 13 and we shall do it again. We do not pay people to destroy us from within. As Victor Davis Hanson cynically observed recently, if you paid the current socialist UC system faculty enough they would all become fascists too, with just as much ease.
Gotta love that first paragraph of JL and I couldn’t agree more;
The January 6th event at our capital was indeed “threats to our democracy”
Thank you for illuminating.
Peaceful protestors were acting in self-defense after being attacked by the Capitol Police on Jan 6. The ongoing requests by authorized representatives for review of a state's electoral vote certification were perfectly legal. There was nothing to fear - yet the Capitol Police decided to open fire on the milling crowds which had gathered in support of that legal process. We still don't know what other forces were there to exploit this event.
The only thing we learned is conservatives run towards the action when people are being attacks in order to protect others; and do not run away. as perhaps the Capitol Police intended to have happen.
But why was Ray Epps demanding everyone "go into the Capitol" during those very same events when no one on the Trump side owns up to this remaining mysterious person? Too bad there was never an honest analysis of those very few hours of an unfortunate melee, and high scrutiny of the hundreds of hours of multiple angle camera tapes.
So why have so many of your 'tourists' been convited from events from Jan 6? Something over 700 have been convicted of committing federal crimes. How do you explain that? Did they all have Merchan as their judge?
Many rally protestors were convicted of entering what was called "prohibited space" - the Capitol Grounds and Buildings, even after doors were opened and they were invited in. It is all looking very bad for Democrats -if this is what they use to gin up their MAGA crime spree. Expect whole sale pardons for these continuing Democrat lawfare injustices.
Thomas John, I always appreciate your questions because they ask us to go deeper into understanding- you starting point is another matter- but allow me to ask you a question, what was happened on Jan 6 at the capital an insurrection?
Thank you. My opinion - I wasn't there - was there were various groups there for various reasons. And things got out of hand. Most of the folks where probably just supporters of the outgoing President Trump that headed over after the rally. But then there were orchestrated groups - acting in paramilitary fashion. It's been a while - was it the oath keepers that had their hand on the guy in front shoulder and moved though the crowd alike a snake on a mission? Both Sen. Graham and house member McCarthy were calling Trump to do something to restore order and protect the capitol. Part of it seemed sideshow - part seemed much darker and planned. I'm not an expert at police training either - but like many police departments (Uvalde TX, etc.) it seems like when problems become several orders of magnitued more complicated than they are use to (and maybe have or have not been trained) things can go sideways fast. It's always easy to figure out what the majority of the rioters did wrong - and the police - when looking back at the situation. I'm just wondering how much permeditation the groups like the oathkeepers or proudboys had - this is the part that doesn't sit well with me the most.
Thank you for your honest reply, but you didn't specifically say that it was or wasn't an "insurrection." Do you have a firm opinion on that? I will tell you that it was not an insurrection and I think a good deal of your answer explains partially why it was not.
Bullying. Ah... isn't that Trump? I thought that's what MAGA appreciated about him?
It seems to me that it is the left that bullies the rest of us.
That may also be true. But you're saying Trump doesn't also?
It seems like Trump is rough, and really acts poorly at times, so ya. But it is soooo different than what the left does on a massive scale.
No it wasn't. As someone who genuinely despise democracy, republicanism, and popular will/sovereignty, I can safely say it wasn't
.
To believe that the ends justify the means, or that "any means necessary" is acceptable for one's conduct is a hallmark of deviant revolutionaries. The French Republicans murdered innocent people with the reign of terror, putting upt to 170,000 to the sword. In Mexico the revolutionary government under Plutarco Elias Calles persecuted the Church and believers leading up to the Cristero war by seizing land and other assets, in addition to preventing public displays or acts of worship. (Liberal beliefs motivated by secular ideologies have also ade religion a private matter where it was previously a public one). No need to mention the bolsheviks and their crimes, we all know what happened to Eastern Europe thanks to their regime.
The author reveals his myopia and affliction with McCarthyism by bundling the murderous and deeply malevolent Stalin and Goebbels, who were far worse than mere “scoundrels”, with community organizer Saul Alinsky, who for decades including the present has inspired many progressive politicians and others trying to make this country and the world a better place for those not blessed with inheritance and privilege. https://www.vox.com/2014/10/6/6829675/saul-alinsky-explain-obama-hillary-clinton-rodham-organizing
WOW Ira Gottlieb! I agree they are much worse than scoundrels, but Alinsky dedicated Rules for Radicals to Lucifer. It would seem myopia and McCarthyism better describe someone else.
SJR: That is as good as Bill Ayers (Obama's ghost writer) dedicating his pro-revolutionary book to Sirhan Sirhan. What was that all about?
I know right? Crazy! I love how Ira is defending Alinsky. Maybe he was just joking. Has anyone here read rules for radicals?
Who was Trump's ghostwriter for 'art of the deal? Oh yeah, Tony Schwartz, the guy that now regrets having anything to do with Trump. He’s donated several hundred thousand dollars from the book’s proceeds to causes he believes the former president would hate
Alinsky didn’t dedicate R for R to Lucifer. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/saul-alinsky-dedicated-rules-for-radicals-to-lucifer/
Ira, I think you are technically right, but the literary allusion serves a very similar purpose because it is an affirming allusion-
He wrote:
"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very
first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to
know where mythology leaves off and history begins—or which is which),
the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and
did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom—Lucifer.
—SAUL ALINSKY"
I reject Lucifer and his kingdom and Saul Alinsky doesn't - Also, this makes it very clear that he was not being ironic.
Thanks for pointing this out- I will amend my speech to reflect the correction.
Perhaps Alinsky was being ironic. Or is it that you think organizing against capital is satanic?
Alinsky's ideology is Satanic.
Circular. There’s nothing wrong, much less devilish, about organizing people to pursue their own betterment, even if it means less profit or discretion or freedom to pollute or realization of greedy impulses by and for the powerful. Regrets if you find that satanic.
Circular? I have no doubt that those who think Alinsky was a good guy are sincere, but I will suggest that a good end does not justify illicit means. One's "betterment" is a highly questionable term if we are asking Saul what it means to be "better." I am a little worried Ira that you may share definitions with Alinsky. Still, look at what JL posted about Rule #13 and tell me if you agree with Alinsky or do you recognize that as vicious and dividing?
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Sound like any Republicans you know? Not my favorite tactic, but there are times and circumstances where this makes sense. And this country uses it, and when a person embodies evil, it is appropriate. Do you know the story of Wendy McCaw, owner of the SB News-Press? Or Frank Lorenzo of Continental Airlines? Joe McCarthy? Stalin? Hitler? Republicans have used this tactic against President Obama; Trump did it before he was president. He more than many deserve to be the target. It certainly doesn’t make one satanic.
Really? You think he was kidding about dedicating the book to Lucifer?
Turns out he didn’t dedicate his book to Lucifer. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/saul-alinsky-dedicated-rules-for-radicals-to-lucifer/
I think Snopes is making a distinction without a difference- what Alynsky wrote about Lucifer as the original radical and the rest of it is very affirming. And have you read that dreadful book, I have and it is terrible and for sure inspired by satan.
Only 17% of US wealth is "inherited". And quite often dissipated by the third generation. Give your class warfare arguments a rest, Ira.
17% is not chump change. Who’s Lou? And why is the right so disturbed by “class warfare” in which they engage daily?
Why is the Left so envious and waste their time complaining about what others have, instead making their own American dream work for themselves? America's exceptionalism has always been its high degree of fluid social mobility -one of the reasons so many still do want to come to America.
Only 17% inherited wealth is chump change. But it is also a primary source of major public philanthropy. Yet the Left wants to confiscate it all. Expect push back. Let those with inherited means protect that wealth from the documented waste, fraud and abuse when it falls into government hands.
Currently, upward mobility in this country is largely a myth. The left sees unfairness and responds. Which doesn’t mean it doesn’t also try to elevate people; why does the right take such a jaundiced and fictionalized view of the left?
And, why does the right try so hard to deny people voting rights, and the ability to organize into a union? That avenue used to be a ticket to the middle class, but has been made more difficult and risky at the behest of Reagan.
Ira, Upward mobility covers the 83% who earned their wealth by other than inheritance. But 100% will never reach those same heights. Is that what you resent? 100% have the opportunity in this country. The choices are theirs. Some choose this route. Most do not.
Yet now just working for the government thrusts those with ordinary skills easily into the stratosphere of millionaires, living only off interest earned with guaranteed checks coming in monthly regardless of market forces. .
Are you instead demanding some sort of more wholesale "wealth redistribution"? Burdens do come with the lives of the "very rich", that many wold probably not choose for themselves.
Yet government employees now retire as de facto millionaires, without any fiscal worries at all.. Is America great or what?
Your destain for government employees and unions might color your thought process. Step back you might learn something in your search.... They chose a safe bet and are getting moderate rewards.
Ira,
Are you a communist? Do you not believe in merit?
What does it mean to “believe in merit”? I think if it’s fairly applied, it can be a valid measure for compensation and advancement. But I don’t think capitalism is very good at determining it.
The Church has done more for the poor and marginalized than secular individuals lacking in morals, progressive also notably have little regard for charity and oppose the poorer classes if they happen to have religious beliefs.
Another sweeping and wildly inaccurate statement; it’s nonsense to suggest those who are “secular” — whatever you mean by that— lack morals. It seems that the author of the main article and you fear organization for collective power, to aid people to aid themselves. “The church” certainly has engaged in charity, and some religious officials have supported Alinsky-inspired organizing; there is not a conflict between the two. And your statement that progressives “have little regard for charity” is completely false and baseless. There are countless charities and support organizations funded by progressives, such as Bet Tzedek, Liberty Hill, Los Angeles Alliance for the New Economy, other legal aid organizations like California Rural Legal Assistance and far too many others to count. And then there’s the former president who, when he’s not committing fraud, or stealing classified documents, steals money from charities.
It's not that the secular humanists don't have "morals" it is that their morals are not tethered to the objective standards of good and justice, so they are ever morphing, declining, decaying and descending into malevolence in general. Secular humanists of 100 years ago were better people than secular humanists of today.
The true Church and Alinsky are as diametrically opposed as we can be- the Church rightfully condemns the evil of communism and socialism and the very collective groups that have been responsible for unprecedented murder, oppression and poverty.
I am pretty sure you don't know what the word "charity" means. This is the point of the article, that the abuse of speech has become normalized in our society so much so that one can say the diametric opposite of the truth as truth claims.
We disagree, and I don’t appreciate or respect your arrogance or necessarily distorted and ahistorical perspective. For one thing, you won’t seem to get the distinction between Stalin and Goebbels on the one hand, and Alinsky on the other. Nor do you account for the notion that collectivism can be a mechanism for good or evil, just as capitalism can be and has been. Instead you categorically (and ahistorically) assign evil to one and goodness to the other. Similarly with “secular humanism”: Have you forgotten the vast harms, hatred, abuses, corruption, and massacres committed in the name of religion? The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, pogroms, missionary depredations against native peoples, justifications of slavery and indentured servitude, child abuse? The perpetrators were not secular humanists, and I have barely scratched the surface.
Dear Ira,
Self-righteous indignation is a poor substitute for erudition.
My degree from UCSB is in history, so if I am ahistorical and my diploma is the cause that you might agree with my indictment of UCSB as an anti-intellectual organization.
In reality what you express is historicism.
I don't have a way to tell you this, but collectivism is an evil even if it appears as if it yields "good results." I never said capitalism was good, although properly understood it can be very good at times. Still, material communism and socialism are evil, full stop. Saul Alinsky, Stalin and Goebbels all have in common that they serve Satan. They are distinct individuals but all belong to the same evil party. I can't fathom what real distinction you want to make.
Your tropes about religion are simply propaganda, but weak and lazy. Communism, socialism, and collectivism has murdered innocents in unprecedented numbers. People are fallen and every group murders and commits sin- All humans are religious- but Christians murder when they go against the Faith, Communists murder when they go with their faith- If we take the high numbers (I believe they are not true) given by the most honest secular humanist historians on the number murdered in 300 years of the Spanish Inquisition and compare it to the numbers of people Stalin murdered over 20 years the ratio of comparative survival is 1 death in Spanish inquisition compared to 9,999 in the Stalinist Rule. Stalin and Alinsky are two peas in a pod.
You truly haven't scratched the surface, you have been led by pathological propaganda to repeat falsehoods, by which you are no doubt convicted.
Arrogance and conclusory propaganda is no substitute for a fact-based argument. You don’t justify your equation between Alinsky and Stalin because you can’t. Nor do you persuade anyone who isn’t already tethered to your bigoted retro point of view by saying the three “serve Satan”. Indeed, you expose the weakness of your argument by defaulting to that trope. I’m sure you’ll want the last word and you’re welcome to it.
Ira, those cited acts were not "committed in the name of religion". You are only now associating them as such. Why does "religion" make you uncomfortable - everyone has a spiritual side. Thank goodness.
Everyone? And spiritual is very very different than 'religion'.
The Church wasn't carrying out executions during any inquisition, that was carried out by secular states to punish those who were considered to be a destabilizing force. The Church was concerned with doctronal purity and repentance for anyone found guilty. The crusades were also a series of defensive wars that sought to reclaim territory from the Byzantine Empire and also liberate previously Christian lands in North Africa and the Middle East which Muslim armies conquered and put many to the sword. You should learn your history and not simply secular interpretations of it.
Child abuse is happening in every institution where humans are to be found, and if EVERY person followed Catholic teachings absolutely, child abuse wouldn't be a thing.
Then there is the current president who recklessly stores classified documents all over the place, cuts deals using his political power to get rich, used to hang with KKK friends, has messed up the economy, foreign relations and everything he has touched.
Jarrell, why does the mainstream media tell us just the opposite? And then why do they complain about the fact that most American's don't trust them.
Another Kool-Aid imbiber. I say that because you’re spouting nonsense and fiction. The economy has been vastly improved since Trump lost — or do you not believe he lost? — he promptly rectified his document misplacement, the operative word on KKK association is “used to”, while Trump and his party are racists at this moment, and he is not enriching himself as Trump has, even though he didn’t take his presidential salary.
See you at the polls.
The economy had improved because the lock downs which crippled everyone are no longer in effect and haven't been for years now.
"But Trump and the Republicans are racist". Uh, yeah sure. You saying so definitely makes it true.
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html
Ira, it truly sounds like you get your points from MSNBC and have not bothered to compare them to reality. Do you know what the word racist means?
Secular people with liberal/revolutionary ideologies don't seem to believe in objective morality, rather whatever they think is good is somehow okay, even if it means trampling on the lives and rights of others. Historically, "progressives" have often engaged in massacres and other acts of violence to achieve their means, even directed towards innocent people.
I'm not opposed to "collective power" at all. I'm a Catholic Monarchist, a Carlist, and I very much support individuals organizing with each other to promote the dignity of man. I support communal living, and I oppose hyper individualism so often presents I abhorrent capitalism and free and liberal markets and fully support the rights of workers to organize and campaign for fair wages. I'm not just some contemporary conservative or republican.
Gosh, autocorrect. I abhor, capitalism and hyper-individualism.
Mr Gottlieb,
Alinsky is a socialist, just like Stalin. How can you think they are any different?
All socialists are not created equal; nor do they all behave alike. Where does Bernie Sanders fit in? And frankly I wouldn’t rely on a right-winger’s definition or label ing of a socialist, because they will tell you everyone from the Clintons to Fabians to Eugene Debs to Obama to FDR to the Green Bay Packers to every union leader on the planet to everyone who believes in any government-funded program is a socialist.
Trump is a fascist. Is he the same as Mussolini or Hitler or Father Coughlin?
All socialists want to make a heaven on earth or make the world "a better place" by the power of centralized government. The democrats are the real fascists. Again, have you read Alinsky's book? He is a communist and luciferian, I can't believe anyone would endorse such a horrible person. Bernie is not too different. But I am not a right winger.
Democrats aren't fascists. Fascist support corporatism as an alternative to capitalism and belive that the economy should be run under different corporations that each serve a particular industry. The only real similarities between fascists and the democrat party is there appeal to enlightenment and revolutionary ideals which are secular in nature.
1989 Tiananmen Square protest
Apartheid protests
Kent State
There are so many protests movements that you would support now as just, but back then you would be ringing the same bell. How dare the activists make us uncomfortable.
Here is the IDF admitting they bombed a Palestinian refugee camp:
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4285712-israel-airstrike-gaza-refugee-camp/mlite/?nxs-test=mlite
Seems like genocide to me.
Remind us of the state of South Africa today, Justin? Be careful what you wish for, since you just might get it.
Are you seriously saying with South Africa would be better under apartheid?
Do you even know what has happened to South Africa after its independence? You are intentionally creating a false equivalency. Why?
Because you would whitewash exactly how terrible it was before. Your argument is the same as saying "black people learned skills under slavery". You leave out all the horrorshow of the racism because it suits you.
You spend a lot of time reading other people's minds, Justin. I spent a lot of time in South Africa both before and after apartheid. Traveled from Cape to Cairo looking for first hand observations myself, because outside impressions, did not match what was on the ground - Cry, the beloved country. (PS: I know you will have fun with that statement in your currently rigid world view.)
Don't be so quick to judge if it isn't this, it is therefore that. Tolerate the gray areas of life; not your current black and white cartoon versions which were instilled by someone else since you have not yet accumulated much real life experience.
Again, JL deflects.
Also the idea of outside agitators or organization has been disproven over and over again. Are you that threatened that college students could organize a protest against genocide and the support thereof?
Of course there are outside agitators. Often still wearing purple tee-shirts. College campuses today are now caught in the public sector union turf wars. Take your blinders off, Justin.
You're right. Purple t shirts are a sign that the agitators are Saul Alinsky George Soros funded.
Keep digging, Justin. You have a very important teaching moment in front of you.
I don't need to to dig. It's already been shown. Why can't you accept students don't like seeing dead children and would choose to try and do something about it?
Of course college students love seeing dead children. What do you think the pro-abortion fervor is all about, Justin.
Why not protest the million dead babies aborted per year in the U S then?
Justin, your cluelessness would be funny if it weren't real. yes college kids love seeing dead babies, they will protest for it and defend it.
One can oppose Israel's actions and even it's existence as a state, many Catholics like myself already do. Yet we don't feel the need to engage in this behavior.
I am reminded of the quote often attribute to Eleanor Roosevelt (probably not hers) “Well-behaved women rarely make history." Silent disagreement rarely begets change.
Why would anyone be "well-behaved" today? Can you imagine that you use that as an insult, a well-cultivated virtuous human being will not make history, therefore, misbehave so you can make change and history- wow!
These individuals would likely support the French revolution, that alone gives me no sympathy for them. Those who belive in "change at any cost" are immoral individuals and should not be taken seriously.
I don't think it is change at any cost. I think it is please stop killing children and babies.
How much reality do you have to ignore to think this topic is really about killing children and babies? This tragedy doesn't end because we say such things and is only the rotten fruit mistaken for root cause.
Where is there condemnation of abortion? I oppose Israel's actions of displacing native Palestinians, and of their attacks which have led to deaths of thousands of dead men and women, and most unfortunate children. I also oppose abortion yet I don't see these people marching alongside the March for Life movement, or praying outside abortion facilities and encouraging young pope and couples to choose life.
Dear Steven, In your column you write "'Say Genocide' and its adherents are illegitimate. They have no right to force anyone to say anything that is not true. " This raises several questions. Do the student protestors have the right to force it to be said if it is true? Do they actually have the means to "force" anything? Did people like Bill Ackman manage to "force" out the presidents of Harvard and UPenn and pressure others at places like Columbia, UCLA, MIT and even here at UCSB into using overwhelming state power from the barrel of a gun to force the protestors to desist? Who had the power to get the presidents of several universities hauled before congress? And perhaps more to the point, is it actually not true that Israel's bombing of schools, hospitals and entire residential areas, the more than a decade old control of all borders to Gaza and now the tight restriction of even food aid, water and power in the Gaza strip is engineering famine in order to make life unlivable in the Gaza Strip? Are Palestinians in the West Bank not facing increased repression and killings and continuation of the long standing brutal occupation they continue to live under, despite no appreciable Hamas presence, to in fact also make life unlivable for those non-Jews in the land Israel covets in the West Bank? Do these crimes, when looked at in their totality, not meet the UN legal definition of genocide? Is a state for Jews only founded and maintained with terror, massacres, torture, imprisonments and occupation morally tenable? Was it ever possible to carry out the Zionist project without genocide? Jabotinsky didn't seem to think so in his famous essay "The Iron Wall" written in 1923. Those early Zionist terrorists in gangs that were the precurrors to the IDF that were generating the village files and carrying out Plan Dalet, including massacres such as in Deir Yassin and Tantura, didn't seem to think so. Is the Zionist project as it has turned out consistent with Christian moral values? If not, why are we compelled to have both major US parties remain subservient to the interests of Israel, passing unconstitutional "hate" speech laws to silence criticism of Israel, protecting Israel from restraint in the UN, funding Israel to the tune of billions of dollars per year, waging military operations that run into the trillions of dollars for Israel in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Sudan and undermining peace seeking with Iran? How does your above statement change if it is in fact true that Israel is committing genocide with support of US institutions like UCSB as the protestors claim? Is it "anti-Semitic" to quote the Gospels about the people who killed Christ? Speaking of imposing definitions on words, who defines "anti-Semitism" and how does the definition keep expanding? Is it anti-Semitic to be Christian if the ADL's Jonathan Greenblatt says it is? Who is actually being forced with the power that comes from the barrel of a gun, state power? And why do you ignore the moral failing, abuse of language and truth, and corrosion of the moral values of our civilization on the other, much more powerful side of the activism on this issue of what is clearly Israel's war on the non-Jewish indigenous people of Palestine, Christians among them? Thank you for considering.
I've seen several of your comments on this article and another one, and you are all over the place. Like mommy dearest or like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide you insult and you complement with the same measure of nonsense in your subjective one sided narrative.
This is an entire word-salad buffet. How do expect anyone to follow your muddled thinking? And besides that, you tell a one-sided story.